Price of boats... Wow!!! - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 51Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Omatako's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,705
Thanks: 1
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I haven't lost anywhere near that on my boat. Wow! Why dd he take such a hit? If I sold my boat right now, I would not make money, but I would not be out much from what I paid new either. That does not include the gazillion dollars I have thrown out at it since I bought it, which you will never get back, but that is not a bad return for the years of use I have had.

Brian
Brian, it's probably correct to say that if you stripped out all the extras that you have put into your boat over the standard spec, you would have a really tough time getting back anywhere near what you paid. It is those gazillion dollars that makes your boat a desirable used purchase.

Two examples:

My ex boss (very wealthy) bought a Bene 50 in 2008, brand new, on a whim, never owned a boat before. He filled it with stuff to the tune of NZ$130K. Within the first year of ownership, he decided that sailing was not his thing and he bought a high-end power launch. When he came to sell the Bene, he asked the original purchase price of just the boat and after 18 months of trying to sell it he eventually off-loaded it at NZ$80k less than he paid for it not counting the toys. The boat was seldom used, effectively in as -new condition. So he effectively lost NZ$210K within a couple of years.

We have friends that bought a Bene 40 two years ago brand new. They paid NZ$325k including taxes. They have spent another NZ$100k on it since then and counting. If they sold it tomorrow, they would possibly get back most of the $325k but the rest would be school fees. Consequently, it is probably true to say that the boat has devalued by 30% in two years.

So IMHO, the notion that an "ordinary" boat retains value is smoke and mirrors. Maybe Hinkley's and similar boats do but the average production boat? I don't believe so.

I have no illusions about this, when I come to sell my boat and am able to recover 50% of what I spent in total, I will be happy. There is a cost of use to everything in life that is hard to avoid.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Omatako is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 311
Thanks: 7
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Labor, precision tooling and petroleum-derived materials, I think are large cost drivers.
I would wonder if litigation protection would be part of the cost as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Happens in aircraft, where in fact, some used airframes cost more to buy used today than they sold for new in the 70s.
There is a similar thread going on in the AOPA forums about the cost of aircraft. Seriously, $300k for a 172, $750k for a G36, and $1.2m for a new Baron?! That's ridiculous.

Last edited by Shinook; 01-15-2014 at 02:13 PM.
Shinook is offline  
post #23 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,466
Thanks: 21
Thanked 114 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I got this email a little while back from a friend of mine who is a broker. Sorry for the pagination issues. It does not copy well from the email. Basically. the first price is the list price, the second price is the Boat Show Pricing the third number is the savings:

List Price Purchase Before Dec 8 Savings
Catalina 275 $98,081 $98,081
Catalina 315 $178,548 $170,913 $7,635
Catalina 355 $241,144 $230,244 $10,900
Catalina 385 $282,551 $276,571 $14,890 *
Catalina 445 $389,569 $369,244 $20,325 *

Hunter 33 $173,378 $160,905 $12,473
Hunter 37 $242,029 $224,606 $17,423
Hunter 40 $307,798 $288,703 $19,095
Hunter 45DS $429,507 $408,872 $20,635
Hunter 50AC $526,547 $484,312 $42,235
Hunter 50CC $550,894 $518,603 $32,291

Blue Jacket 40 $432,320 $425,163 $7,157



HOLY MOTHER!

Wow... I simply cannot believe some of these prices.

So, a 31 foot Catalina, a production boat, will cost you roughly $171k (that is WITH THE BOAT SHOW DISCOUNT). With sales tax: $182,000. Now does that include any electronics? Bottom Job? Full set of canvas? Tender and outboard? Air Conditioning? Inverter? Realistically, you are going to add many more thousands to that boat and I could easily see you being into that boat for $200k... for a 31 foot boat!!

Look at the other prices... you will easily be into a 445 at $400k (especially when adding all the electronics, generator, air conditioning, etc)... well over half a million for a 50' Hunter... etc.

I guess it has just been too long since I went to a boat show and saw the prices. I am floored. I am not sure what has driven these prices so high. Is it oil? The cost of parts? Wood? In this economy, I really doubt it is demand. I would sure like to know how many families are taking off, buying one of these boats, and going cruising. Heck, are any of them buying these boats at all even for weekending?

Is it just me, or are these prices out of the world?
Most things are less expensive in US but not boats. A Benetau Oceanis 41 costs here (standard boat without transport but with 20% tax) around 260 000 USD, without discount and on boat show discount is around 9%.

I guess that are just the prices that cost to make those boats in US, even the mass production inexpensive ones. I am sure they all are trying to make the best prices they can.

There are at least a good new on that list: comparatively to the Catalina and considering the quality difference I don't find the Bluejacket very expensive. It costs just a bit more then the Catalina 45.

But of course those are just basic boats, a very equipped boat can cost easily more 30 or 40%.

That also explains why used boats with few years are less expensive here than in the US, not only there are more on the used market as they were less expensive when new.

Regards

Paulo





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-15-2014 at 05:49 PM.
PCP is offline  
 
post #24 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Senior Member
 
krisscross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,091
Thanks: 40
Thanked 219 Times in 218 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

At the same time prices for older boats seem to be at record low levels. Maybe these older boat prices are about to go up? Kind of doubt that. Not many buyers.
I think the 1% folks have more money than ever and can afford to buy these new expensive boats.
Minnesail likes this.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Plato
krisscross is online now  
post #25 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 46
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

I suspect that most sailboat owners are 45 - 70 years old (have no idea if this is correct but looking around the marinas I suspect it's not too far off). That means that the huge wave of baby boomers are now starting to near the end of their boat owning years and are selling their boats creating a glut in the market.

This is nothing but rank speculation so please feel free to comment/correct.
Torch is offline  
post #26 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Sabreman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,643
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 14
   
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

In 1977, my mom and dad purchased a new Catalina 30 for $35000. In today's dollars that's about $133,300. The current price of $170k for a slightly larger Catalina is negotiable, figure a $10k reduction to $160k which is in family with the 1977 price.

The fact is that sailboats only comprise 10% of the boat market so I suspect that scale isn't much of a factor even for the "large" manufacturers. The reality is that boats are largely hand built luxury items. Always have been and always will.

The biggest difference that I see today is that many owners see boats as second homes and finance accordingly. While there is nothing inherently wrong with judicious financing, 90+% financing for a boat is not a great idea IMO.

With all that said, I doubt that I would buy a new boat (or car), the numbers just don't work for me when depreciation is factored. But I'm grateful for new boat (and car) buyers.
bljones, timtim and imasaluki like this.

Sabre 38 "Victoria"
Sabreman is offline  
post #27 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
bell ringer
 
Don0190's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: on way toward New orleans
Posts: 4,130
Thanks: 10
Thanked 113 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

I got my current boat, a 2001 model, 3 years ago. There are a lot of the model currently listed in the world and all but 2 are a lot more than I paid for mine. Seems to me the demand for MODERN used boats is going up based on pricing. But I bet the demand for the older style boat is decreasing and combined with their age prices are going to drop.

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don0190 is offline  
post #28 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 845
Thanks: 2
Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

For a comparison:
House prices.
.................................2000........1990. .......1980..........1970.......1960........1950.. .....1940
.................................Adjusted to 2000 dollars
United States $119,600...$101,100..$93,400...$65,300...$58,600.. .$44,600...$30,600

Actual cost:
...................................2000.........19 90.........1980........1970.........1960.....1950. ......1940
United States......$119,600...$79,100...$47,200...$17,000 ...$11,900...$7,354...$2,938

Cost of a house over the years. (Check out the inflation from 1970-1980)



Keep in mind that 30 years ago the market was the same even the the boats were smaller.

In the scheme of things how much was a 45' boat in 1980? Who bought it? Someone from NYC, Boston, San fran, LA.
What came on a boat in 1975? Very basic equipment. Electronics package now can run 15-20k easy.

There was no used boat market 30 years ago VS today.

When it comes to New Boats.....for those that can afford one; buy, buy, buy, this way i can upgrade 10 years from now. More boats sold the cheaper they will be in the future.
benesailor is offline  
post #29 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
Senior Member
 
ebs001's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,205
Thanks: 6
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 14
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

I checked on yachtworld.com and found a new 2014, Catalina 445 at three different yacht sales sell for $287K to 290K. The 2014, 385 for $214K, 355 for $182K and the 315 for $127K. They are FOB the factory in Florida but you can save another $1,000 if you take the factory tour.
ebs001 is offline  
post #30 of 109 Old 01-15-2014
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,466
Thanks: 21
Thanked 114 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Price of boats... Wow!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebs001 View Post
I checked on yachtworld.com and found a new 2014, Catalina 445 at three different yacht sales sell for $287K to 290K. ...
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2014...s#.UtcqZ_RdWSo

Who can that be? Cruisindad special price on the boat show for the Catalina 445 was $369,240. How can the boat sell out of the boat show for less $80 000? The only situation where I can imagine that happening is a bankruptcy and the boats being sold at cost price. I hope it is not the case.

Regards

Paulo





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by PCP; 01-15-2014 at 07:43 PM.
PCP is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Used Sailboat asking price / purchase price reality sail73fl Boat Review and Purchase Forum 14 10-22-2013 11:58 AM
Difference between asking price and what boats are actually going for CCRYDER Boat Review and Purchase Forum 22 09-04-2012 12:50 AM
list price vs purchase price jcwhite Boat Review and Purchase Forum 15 04-14-2011 03:43 PM
Price fixing on new boats RyanMI25 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 14 08-15-2002 12:50 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome