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post #1 of 68 Old 04-04-2014 Thread Starter
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The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

A Sailnet sexton dug up CD's post from a few months back:
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...ats-wow-3.html
I admit, I am hard pressed to find the value in a new boat.
Before anybody goes grabbin' pitchforks and torches, let me disclaim here for a minute:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a new boat.
At all.
Ever.

Some sailors like to buy new and trade the uncovered unknowns of an old boat for the hopefully-warranty-covered unknowns of commissioning, others have scrimped and saved and worked damn hard over the years to trade up and up, with the goal of buying a boat that is not just new-to-them, but brand-spankin' NEW, while other others are just plain filthy rich and wouldn't think of anything BUT buying big, brand new and blinged out.
Good on 'em, I say!...
If that is what floats your boat and puts a smile on your face, Neptune love ya!

But I can't do it.
Or, more correctly, I won't do it, because if I can't justify the value, I definitely can't justify carrying the 25 year note, so "can't" and "won't" are damn near enough interchangeable in this equation.

I am a bottom feeder- and I like it down here.

As my 40th birthday gets ever smaller in the rearview mirror, my gut gets bigger, and 50 looms at damn near the next exit on my life as a highway, a few stone truths have become apparent:

I was never all that good looking.
I was never all that talented.
Compared to the dreams I had when I was 18, I am a damn failure.

I never became a rock star, I didn't get a three book deal and a 6 figure advance cheque, and I didn't become a multi-millionaire by 30. Thus, to 18 year old me, I failed.

And, I am okay with all of that.

Because I am a failure, because I am nothing but unrealized potential stuffed into a pair of Dockers, (aka Toughskins for adults) I have learned the life hacks and workarounds necessary to live like I made it.
Which is why sailing is perfect for me.

There are virtually no seaworthy 40 year old 30 foot powerboats on the market for under the price of a 2007 Hyundai...
but there are a crapload of perfectly acceptable sailboats out there for four figures. The best part? I can sail the bejeezus out of a $5000 boat for four or five seasons and likely sell it for....
....$5000.
and if I can't?
Hell, even if I have to give it away five seasons down the road, my loss is only $1000/year.
Less than $3 a day.
A draft beer a day.

When was the last time a draft beer gave us this much fun, this many grins, this much excitement and life?

Yes, I hear you, Yeahbutniks: "Yeah, but, there are repairs and maintenance and upgrades and dockage and ..."

...and all of that is cheaper down here on the bottom as well. When you buy an expensive boat, the idea of buying used gear is, to some, a little unseemly, and rightly so. Used gear on a newish boat devalues the boat and raises suspicions of the next buyer.
It is also a lot less nerve-wracking to drill new holes in an old deck than it is to drill new holes in a new deck.

On the bottom, used gear looks LESS out of place and LESS suspicious than NEW gear.
As Gunny Highway said, "You improvise, you adapt, you overcome."

Oh yeah, back to that nerve-wracking thing- with less invested, there is less risk in attempting new skills and new (at least to you) ideas to refit or upgrade your ride.

A generation ago, a 30 foot cruising boat was what you traded up TO, and you kept her for 20 years, because you'd made it- you had space and luxury, and comfort to cruise or weekend comfortably- it was the boat you never felt you would outgrow...and most didn't.

Today, a 30 foot boat is the marketed as an "entry level" cruising boat, a boat to start with, and trade out of as quickly as possible.

Thankfully.

Because the more often a boat is traded, the faster it depreciates, and the sooner it hits the bottom of it's depreciation curve, which means there is a whole new batch of boats at the bottom of their depreciation curve sooner, hopefully for new generations of adventuresome failures to discover.

and the price of admission is only a draft beer a day.




If you're a bottom feeder, keep on keeping on. And take a newbie for a sail every once in a while. We need more greenhorns sailing.

After all, we need someone to sell our boats to.
BarryL, Donna_F, Faster and 33 others like this.

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Last edited by bljones; 04-09-2014 at 07:45 AM.
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post #2 of 68 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

I like it down here.
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post #3 of 68 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

Ah there is nothing better than to know than that the skin you live in is yours. When I first got into this crazy lifestyle known as sailing it wasn't because I wanted a certain type of boat, I just wanted to sail and now so many years later I still just want to sail, although I do have a severe case of three foot itis at present. The newest boat I have owned is my present, a 1976 that I am perfectly content with and still think is a damned good looking boat. Do I dream of being able to have a boat built for me, yes, is it going to happen, not likely but I am content sailing my days away on the boat I have.
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post #4 of 68 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

I dont know to call you bullsh!t for calling yourself a bottom feeder.
Anyway, you called it yourself so I will reply: Bullsh!t Or if the forum allows (in Australian) Bull****ing****!

The rest of your post is wrong in so many ways too.... Each person buys what they want and can afford, but its back end as well as front end. Theres plenty of people out there that buy older boats and spend lots of time fixing them up. Thats not me! I buy a boat I can afford and then when I am finished with it it will be a project boat!

My life is not based around varnishing some bit of wood. Its about getting out there and being a tourist, drinking booze, doing some sailing and getting LAID! Its not about using an f'ing sextant, polishing the binnacle, or wanking the fibreglass.

So don't read these forums as someones advice being for everyone... Its not. Every person and every boat is different. Where theres a fit its great. But each fit is totally individual.
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post #5 of 68 Old 04-04-2014 Thread Starter
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Where theres a fit its great. But each fit is totally individual.
exactly. Not sure what got you all fired up, because i am not quite sure where you and i disagree. There is nothing at all wrong with buying a new boat, nothing at all wrong with buying a boat somewhere in the vast middle. I think i covered that in the first paragraph or two.

I was just pointing out why I like what I like. and that you don't have to be a success to sail, because theres lots of good stuff on the bottom, that doesn't require " using an f'ing sextant, polishing the binnacle, or wanking the fibreglass."

Personally Ive never had any problem making time for drinking rum and loafing around and getting laid. which I do. A lot. Because although i am a failure to my 18 year old self, at least one sexy woman finds a guy who can polish the binnacle kinda attractive attractive to stick around anyway.

How you see that as "wrong" is on you, not me, mate.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

Seems like BJ and I share a spot inthe mud!
A good, old, well depreciated boat suits me fine. Thataways I, and others seeing it, have no expectations or illusions. Anything is an improvement. A good, used piece of equipment where there was none before is a treat; not a eyesore or hardship. A paid for bastard collection of functioning parts and a great soul beat the helloutta sky-high payment and worry over a few scratches!
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
A Sailnet sexton dug up CD's post from a few months back:
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...ats-wow-3.html
I admit, I am hard pressed to find the value in a new boat.
Before anybody goes grabbin' pitchforks and torches, let me disclaim here for a minute:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a new boat.
At all.
Ever.

Some sailors like to buy new and trade the uncovered unknowns of an old boat for the hopefully-warranty-covered unknowns of commissioning, others have scrimped and saved and worked damn hard over the years to trade up and up, with the goal of buying a boat that is not just new-to-them, but brand-spankin' NEW, while other others are just plain filthy rich and wouldn't think of anything BUT buying big, brand new and blinged out.
Good on 'em, I say!...
If that is what floats your boat and puts a smile on your face, Neptune love ya!

But I can't do it.

I am a bottom feeder- and I like it down here.

As my 40th birthday gets ever smaller in the rearview mirror, my gut gets bigger, and 50 looms at damn near the next exit on my life as a highway, a few stone truths have become apparent:

I was never all that good looking.
I was never all that talented.
Compared to the dreams I had when I was 18, I am a damn failure.

I never became a rock star, I didn't get a three book deal and a 6 figure advance cheque, and I didn't become a multi-millionaire by 30. Thus, to 18 year old me, I failed.

And, I am okay with all of that.

Because I am a failure, because I am nothing but unrealized potential stuffed into a pair of Dockers, (aka Toughskins for adults) I have learned the life hacks and workarounds necessary to live like I made it.
Which is why sailing is perfect for me.

There are virtually no seaworthy 40 year old 30 foot powerboats on the market for under the price of a 2007 Hyundai...
but there are a crapload of perfectly acceptable boats out there for four figures. The best part? I can sail the bejeezus out of a $5000 boat for four or five seasons and likely sell it for....
....$5000.
and if I can't?
Hell, even if I have to give it away five seasons down the road, my loss is only $1000/year.
Less than $3 a day.
A draft beer a day.

When was the last time a draft beer gave us this much fun, this many grins, this much excitement and life?

Yes, I hear you, Yeahbutniks: "Yeah, but, there are repairs and maintenance and upgrades and dockage and ..."

...and all of that is cheaper down here on the bottom as well. When you buy an expensive boat, the idea of buying used gear is, to some, a little unseemly, and rightly so. Used gear on a newish boat devalues the boat and raises suspicions to the next buyer.

On the bottom, used gear looks LESS out of place and LESS suspicious than NEW gear.
As Gunny Highway said, "You improvise, you adapt, you overcome."

A generation ago, a 30 foot cruising boat was what you traded up TO, and you kept her for 20 years, because you'd made it- you had space and luxury, and comfort to cruise or weekend comfortably- it was the boat you never felt you would outgrow...and most didn't.

Today, a 30 foot boat is the marketed as an "entry level" cruising boat, a boat to start with, and trade out of as quickly as possible.

Thankfully.

Because the more often a boat is traded, the faster it depreciates, and the sooner it hits the bottom of it's depreciation curve, which means there is a whole new batch of boats at the bottom of their depreciation curve sooner, hopefully for new generations of adventuresome failures to discover.

and the price of admission is only a draft beer a day.




If you're a bottom feeder, keep on keeping on. And take a newbie for a sail every once in a while. We need more greenhorns sailing.


Ah, bl, I feel your pain. Our last sailboat was a Coronado 25, "poor man's boat". Come back to PWRG, or whatever it is called, way too quiet since you left.

Paul T

Last edited by Donna_F; 04-05-2014 at 08:36 AM. Reason: fixed HTML code
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post #8 of 68 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

Hi, My Name is Kurt and I am a bottom feeder... (crowd responds, "Hi Kurt") Not only is my boat at the bottom (not sunk, just cheap) it was cheap enough to get back into sailing after being land locked for 20 years. It's 45 years old and has been recycled many many times, I have a slip in the "low rent district" of So Cal... My daily rent comes in around $7.50 a day, thats year round with free electricity, water, showers, laundry etc... On top of the $7.50 a day is maint, insurance, and general upkeep. For a weekend getaway in So Cal that's pretty darn cheap.

"There are those that stand at the shore looking to the sea, wondering, and there are those standing at the helm looking back at shore, knowing." - Kurt Leisenfelder

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post #9 of 68 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

Lookin outside to see if hell has frozen over or if I see Flying Pigs cuz Bj and I agree.

EXCEPT........I have lower standards.
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post #10 of 68 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: The Benefits of Bottom Feeding

I am so far from affording a new boat... in the size and quality that I would want....

One thing about realizing you are not God's gift to women is for us average guys it isn't a sudden realization

There are lots of reasons for buying a new boat, but I can not think of any of them that would work for me.

One of the main ones is the fact that depreciation isn't just on the boat.

Boats I am looking at is under 20'. I haven't really priced out new ones much but to know that a 1980 boat is good enough and won't cost me $18,000.. so I am not sure about this... but if I was to buy a 1980 O'Day Daysailer I could get it with trailer and sails for around $2,000 (some more, some less)...

The trailer is used, but would fit my need and way cheaper than a new one.. On the O'day site boat is $12,400.00, plus $2,100.00 for sails... new sails are the price of a (very) used boat...trailer is $1,250.00... a motor bracket is $350 which is moot since I don't want to register the boat (so not looking for a motor)... but with a used boat that might be a free extra.

One of the difference and it is sketchy. Some used boats are very well cared for... sometimes all new rigging and the owner dies..


in directly one of the problems with new, is everything has a price, unless a dealer has some package for you that includes Rollerfurling and anchor..


One thing the first post doesn't mention is, a used boat might need a little work, but that work might be a nice little hobby activity


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