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post #71 of 75 Old 12-30-2017
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Re: RYA yachtmaster vs USCG license Captain vs ICC

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I'm sorry, but I really disagree with this statement entirely. Most military vessels have 4 to 10+ times the crew of an equal size civilian vessel, even if they are not warships. They have redundant personnel for every job aboard and if the crews are not getting enough sleep, then that falls directly to mismanagement of those personnel.
A civilian vessel of 600 feet might have 40 crew (more likely 24) but a military vessel of the same size (with no marine compliment) will have upwards of 250. If the officers on these vessels cannot get their crew enough sleep, then there is a big problem.
Please do not respond about aircraft carriers, as I'm well aware that if they are having flight operations, that not even the off watch personnel can sleep. However, it has not yet been a carrier that has been involved in negligent operations, to the best of my knowledge.
This was one of the findings of the enquiries into the recent collisions. The other problem, lack of training, ultimately is for the same reason as the lack of sleep - too much to do in not enough time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/u...committee.html

But it's not a new problem, it's been known for a while :

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...or-ship-crews/

One of the results of the recent accidents has been that the Navy is finally accepting the expert's recommendations for shift patterns.

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post #72 of 75 Old 12-30-2017
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Re: RYA yachtmaster vs USCG license Captain vs ICC

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Granted, there are some bad apples in every basket, but for the most part, USCG licensed captains are pretty damned good at what they do. Happy New Year, everyone, Gary
Gary, just to be quite clear, my criticism of the USCG licensing is not with the captains, but with the system. Someone who has no more experience on vessels larger than a rowboat can fake his sea time with very little chance of being caught. The Licensing Center has neither the budget, nor the personnel to verify sea time for each applicant. The exams are multiple choice, certainly not the best proof of mastery of a subject, if one can see the answer before them, and the exam prep courses are designed to pass anyone who pays the tab. I passed every aspect of the 100 ton Ocean Operator exam plus radar, Loran and sailing endorsements, in around 5 hours.
On the other side of the coin, my British Commonwealth exam took 25 hours of exams and not one question was multiple choice. Most questions had multiple parts and each question was scored at 100 points. The last 5 hours was before a panel of licensed masters from England who could ask any question from the syllabus for that grade of ticket.
Before I was even allowed to sit for the exam, I had to drive the harbor tug, aiding vessels docking and undocking, at the direction of the pilot, for a couple of weeks and then I had to actually be the harbor pilot for another couple. That certificate of competency allowed me to operate any vessel up to 50 meters, on any waters.
I was absolutely flabbergasted when the USCG would not reciprocate that ticket, especially after taking their silly excuse for a test of a candidate's competency to operated a vessel which could carry hundreds of passengers, and yet was limited to only 100 grt.

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post #73 of 75 Old 12-30-2017
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Re: RYA yachtmaster vs USCG license Captain vs ICC

It's pretty well established that it's substantially harder to get the lower tickets in the UK than the US. However, even to get one in the US, you have to make a reasonable commitment to study, which probably indicates at least one is heading in the right direction. It's still odd that there is no practical exam, like there is for a car or plane.

Nevertheless, I'm now curious if this bares out in an accident or incident results in vessels <100GT between the two countries. I suspect, in the US, you may get the license, but you're not getting the job, until you prove you know what you're doing.


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Re: RYA yachtmaster vs USCG license Captain vs ICC

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However, even to get one in the US, you have to make a reasonable commitment to study,
In the US, you are studying to pass the test, not to learn the rules. If you want to do that, you have to do that separately from the license prep courses.

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post #75 of 75 Old 12-31-2017
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Re: RYA yachtmaster vs USCG license Captain vs ICC

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In the US, you are studying to pass the test, not to learn the rules. If you want to do that, you have to do that separately from the license prep courses.
Totally true, but it's not a single weekend endeavor. It takes months and I'm postulating that most who make that commitment have a bit more going for them than the average bear on the water.

It definitely doesn't make one instantly qualified to take my boat out, with a crew of 10. Nevertheless, I think if you took a dozen random 25T Master license holders and put them in a room with a dozen random non-license holders, you'd quickly note which group were the better seaman. Not to the person, but as a group.

I remain curious if the accident/incident rate, for license holders, is higher in the US.


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