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post #91 of 100 Old 01-08-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

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... Here in Michigan, the DNR inspects all "uninspected vessels", even though, or probably because, the Coast Guard does not. ..
Thats an interesting wrinkle I've seen before. Do you have any doc or reference as to the scope of a MI state inspection, that might an interesting read. They can't just apply the USCG inspected vessel standards, or few pleasure boats could pass.

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post #92 of 100 Old 01-08-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

I hold a USCG 200 ton Master license and run passenger vessels for a living. Even though I am licensed, my personal boat is not. Here in Michigan, the DNR inspects and certifies all "uninspected vessels", even though, or more propably because, the USCG does not. Even if your in a state that does not inspect charter boats, you mstill need to comply with CFR 41 subchapter C equipment requirements, which are quite a bit more stringent than those for pleasure boats, and must be USCG Documented for commercial use to be legal. In short, even with a six-pack or master license, you still cant do it legally unless you are also set up as a charter boat. As previously mentioned however, if things were to go south on you, the Coast Guard will be least of your worries. The lawyers would tear you to pieces.
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post #93 of 100 Old 01-08-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

The DNR inspection program can be seen at Michigan.gov/dnr
I've never done a six pack boat but I'm told is a real project to get a pleasure boat to pass. The documentation issue of interesting. If the boat is over 5 net tons it must be documented for Coastwise Trade. (5 ton is a measure of volume, not weight. It's about a 25 foot boat). There was a charter skipper in Wisconsin (no DNR inspections) who ratted out all his competition to the Coast Guard. He was the only operator in his port who was documented. When the CG got done investigating, he was the only one left in business. Nice guy.

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post #94 of 100 Old 01-08-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

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Originally Posted by capt jgwinks View Post
...There was a charter skipper in Wisconsin (no DNR inspections) who ratted out all his competition to the Coast Guard. He was the only operator in his port who was documented. When the CG got done investigating, he was the only one left in business. Nice guy.
If I had invested a bunch of money to properly equip my boat, as well as the significant ongoing costs of maintaining certification, keeping the boat fit, and keeping business-class insurance, I would also report any non-compliant competitors who were undercutting me. It's not about being a nice guy. The regulations exist to protect the safety of the paying passengers.
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post #95 of 100 Old 09-16-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

I'm going to revive this thread, because I stumbled across it by huge accident (looking for a fellow sailnetter who owns an S2 7.9)... anyway

Somehow, this topic passed me by, and it's even MORE interesting as TakeFive and I have met and he knows of exactly where I sail...

So I'm going to assume (and yes I know what that does)... that my puny little inland lake in this good old US of A, also follows under the inland lakes portion of the Coasties Charter.

A little history: EVERY YEAR our sail club "donates" sailboat rides to people attending our lake festival...

FOR THE FIRST TIME, THIS YEAR the sail club asked for donations to a local charity (in this case the Red Cross). It was a small donation of I think $5 (per person), but many of us asked EXACTLY this same question, the result of which was a waiver that was signed (something I didn't personally look at, and probably should have)...

The question we asked is, "isn't that taking money for sailboat rides (a limited 1 hour charter if you will). " Again in years past this was a free event, so no money was exchanged. So the waiver is what they came up with.

I'm thinking we ought to just consider dropping the donation part if we continue this.

Sorry to beat this dead horse but we have a couple OUPV license holders in the club who thought it wasn't a problem, but then I suppose it wasn't, at least for them.

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post #96 of 100 Old 09-16-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

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...

Sorry to beat this dead horse but we have a couple OUPV license holders in the club who thought it wasn't a problem, but then I suppose it wasn't, at least for them.
Not a problem with the USCG, but unless these individuals have commercial operator insurance on their vessels, they would run a personal risk. If someone was injured while on a donated (paid-for) ride, the standard insurance would probably not cover the claim.

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post #97 of 100 Old 09-16-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

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Not a problem with the USCG, but unless these individuals have commercial operator insurance on their vessels, they would run a personal risk. If someone was injured while on a donated (paid-for) ride, the standard insurance would probably not cover the claim.
Why do you think it's not a problem with the Coast Guard? Do you mean that prosecution is unlikely, or that you don't think a license is necessary to perform this service?
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post #98 of 100 Old 09-16-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

John - As you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I can pretend.

The issue of liability needs to be separated into civil and criminal. Civil liability is always a concern. Anyone can sue you for anything. No way to stop them. They may not win, but everybody will lose (except the lawyers). Judges rarely throw out cases, because they're lawyers too, so they make sure their buddies always win (even when they lose). So you can be sure that getting sued by someone will be a drawn out process. Make sure your insurance covers it so you can hand the case over to them and let them worry about it.

As for criminal liability, that's where the permitting comes into play. Lake Wally's jurisdiction is complicated by the fact that it's private property, owned by PPL (may change in the near future). I don't believe that USCG has any jurisdiction. PPL has probably enlisted the state to handle law enforcement activities, and I'm sure you've seen the state police boats from the Fish & Boat Commission.

If you want to check out the permitting requirements that are specific to the lake, I'd call PPL and hopefully they'll know who could answer the question.

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post #99 of 100 Old 09-16-2015
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Re: Quick Advice: Donating a boat ride for charity

As an addendum, thanks to some paid work for a local non-profit I had to explore this issue extensively just a month or so ago. There actually is a regulation that allows the local Coast Guard commander to grant an inspection waiver to a vessel, for up to four events a year, so long as all the proceeds go to a 501c3 non-profit.

Note that this does not waive the requirements for a licensed captain to be aboard, nor does it provide any civil liability coverage. But at least the vessel doesn't have to be inspected.

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post #100 of 100 Old 09-16-2015
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When I was a helicopter pilot we did some charity raffle rides. Although I was a commercial pilot with 3500 hours, if a private pilot did the same thing, on his dime and not take any money, and I mean so much as money for fuel or a tip, it is considered a simple passenger flight. So long as you are not a "for hire" you are good. It is the same as taking any of your friends out for afternoon sail and cocktails.
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