Florida is at it again - Page 26 - SailNet Community
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post #251 of 471 Old 10-10-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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Wait 'till you get to Marco Island... ;-)

That was scene of Round One of the legal wrangling that brought us to where we are today, after all...

Score One for the Anchoring Activists | Cruising World
I forgot about that one.

On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


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post #252 of 471 Old 10-11-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

The idea that land can be divided, but water can not, is culturally biased. There are plenty of cultures that do not support the concept of land ownership either. Primitive as they may be. There are in fact, seabed ownership rights in some circumstances as well, albeit not typically ocean front.

Navigable waters are clearly regulated now. The world's citizens do not have unfettered access to the world's waters. In fact, the moment you drop your anchor inside a sovereign nation's waters, you are considered to have made landfall and must be properly authorized to be within that country.

While it sounds like this law is being funded by some rich self-entitled idiots, the concept is quite understandable. If you were talking about a reasonable setback, I see no problem with it. Generally, I don't ever want to be within 100 ft of anything I could drag into. I'm not okay with banning anchoring altogether.


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post #253 of 471 Old 10-11-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
The idea that land can be divided, but water can not, is culturally biased. There are plenty of cultures that do not support the concept of land ownership either. Primitive as they may be. There are in fact, seabed ownership rights in some circumstances as well, albeit not typically ocean front.

Navigable waters are clearly regulated now. The world's citizens do not have unfettered access to the world's waters. In fact, the moment you drop your anchor inside a sovereign nation's waters, you are considered to have made landfall and must be properly authorized to be within that country.

While it sounds like this law is being funded by some rich self-entitled idiots, the concept is quite understandable. If you were talking about a reasonable setback, I see no problem with it. Generally, I don't ever want to be within 100 ft of anything I could drag into. I'm not okay with banning anchoring altogether.

Sounds about right, not sure how anyone could argue with that.
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post #254 of 471 Old 10-11-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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Yes, laws change as times change, but one huge distinguishing difference is that people can own and use a particular portion of land, but with the oceans they can not so easily be divided up and used by any one person or entity. Water flows, tides and currents move the waters from one location to another, therefore it may be understood that the oceans of the world belong to ALL of the people of the world, and are available to use (not abuse with pollution!) by watercraft of all types. So this concept establishes the right to anchor in these public waters without claiming them for any particular person, so that all anchorages should be vacated periodically, otherwise people will abuse the right of access to the oceans and live their entire lives in one location on one boat. So this is where we are at in Florida--who regulates the anchorage laws and how often must a person move their watercraft, without being denied access to use the waters?
Unfortunately your notion about the right to anchor in public waters without claiming them for any particular person is historically and currently incorrect. For a very long time there have been CT state shellfish leases that reserve the bottom for use by private individuals/corporations. In our area of Connecticut our harbor commission recognizes these areas as appropriate for transit only, and has does not designate these areas for mooring or anchoring use.

Bottom line: there is a precedent going back more than a century for the public leasing the bottom for private use.
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post #255 of 471 Old 10-12-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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Unfortunately your notion about the right to anchor in public waters without claiming them for any particular person is historically and currently incorrect. For a very long time there have been CT state shellfish leases that reserve the bottom for use by private individuals/corporations. In our area of Connecticut our harbor commission recognizes these areas as appropriate for transit only, and has does not designate these areas for mooring or anchoring use.

Bottom line: there is a precedent going back more than a century for the public leasing the bottom for private use.
And, the precedent of paying politicians to get something you want, but legally shouldn't have, goes back even farther.
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On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


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post #256 of 471 Old 10-12-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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And, the precedent of paying politicians to get something you want, but legally shouldn't have, goes back even farther.
Actually, I'm not so sure. Representative government is fairly young compared to the navigable waterways. Sovereign nations laying claim to their seas goes back to the monarchies. You didn't pay them anything, they just took it. Imagine trying to anchor in front of the Prince's waterfront summer home.

Thankfully, we stand a change to solve this conflict with a reasonable compromise.


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post #257 of 471 Old 10-12-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

The idea that someone can by lease take away rights of the public to sell to an individual is lacking in legality as much as it is in brain cells but just for argument's sake lets say their lease ownership is allowed. Where would such leases (greed) end?
When all the oceans are leased?
What would prohibit an oil rig or lease of bottom land to dump on?
Yes, oysters need clean water or they get contaminated with sewage from house or boat but to claim the public cannot do without oysters or that they are necessary is over the top.
So they say two days and you have to go. That will mean the long term people living on the hook who recognize problems would not be there and short termers would not know what was going on.
The idea of owning the ocean is something born under tyrannical rulers like North Korea.
Much as I love the idea of living on the shore line too and paying FEMA rates, I am a boater and cannot argue the finer details of the land lubber.

Knowing that the sea will be taken up and sold like shares in a condo, my days are limited but for now we still go and stay as we choose.
I will not side with bureaucrats who see the world as a vending machine to pay for their lunch.
You bought a view of those said free boats and now like a junkyard dog claim all you see as what you own.
The sailor is not bound by the same laws but if it were an easy life, you'd join them.
The boats were there long before your house, you have no argument here... Least not one you do not bribe to occur.
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Last edited by Woodvet; 10-12-2015 at 08:48 AM.
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post #258 of 471 Old 10-12-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

I've said it before the derelict boat is not an issue. There are laws in FL already to cover this, what doesn't exist is the money to provide for enforcement and removal. These people are already law breakers, a new law will not end this. They will still drop their boats wherever they please and run off.

The RV comparison is all BS. Most of Florida has deed restricted communities. The buyers have agreed to abide by these restrictions before they buy. They can be fined and their houses placed under lien for payment. One of the usual restrictions is that you cannot park a trailer or RV or boat in your driveway, property or street. Many require you to park your cars in the garage at night. If there was an RV in the street in front of my house and if I wasn't in a deed restricted community and I called the police, they would probably consider it a civil matter and do nothing. I would have to pay someone to tow it away and I would run the risk of the owner suing me for damages.

The reason people don't park their RV out in front of your house and raise H is there are laws against it and the police already exist and we pay for them to enforce the laws already. There would also be no services in the street and these big RVs can't live for long without power, water, sewer. There are already patrol cars probably only 5 minutes or so away. If every one of these people pushing for this new law were told that their property taxes would probably have to be raised to provide for enforcement and removal, I think you'd lose a lot of them. Local police and the FWC are already budget strapped, to add these enforcement needs they would need a huge increase in their budgets.

The real rich people should just lease the water rights from the county, pay the yearly fees and put bouys and ropes how ever far out they want to pay for. MY sailing squadron has docks and we pay a yearly fee for the water the docks cover. In the end you get what you pay for. In Florida if you didn't buy the view, you won't have it too long. Somebody will throw up a condo or something between you and it.
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post #259 of 471 Old 10-13-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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Originally Posted by Woodvet View Post
The boats were there long before your house, you have no argument here...
Uhhh, not necessarily...

Take the Sunset Lake anhorage in Miami Beach, for example...





Sunset Lake is not a 'natural waterway', that pre-existed the development surrounding its perimeter... It is a man-made feature, and in fact would not exist today, were it not for the creation of the Sunset Islands - like virtually all of the islands situated between Miami and Miami Beach - by the Sunset Islands Corporation back in the 1920's, headed by the President of Paramount Pictures at the time...

So, like much of the development and construction of man-made 'waterways' in South Florida, I think it fair to say that the residences came first, and the boats followed. And, it would require quite a revision of history to maintain boats were anchoring in Sunset Lake prior to the homes being built on those islands, or that the lake was created to provide safe harbor for all those recreational watercraft in Miami a century ago, instead of providing the landfill to create those residential islands from what was basically a swamp...

;-)



Last edited by JonEisberg; 10-13-2015 at 12:58 AM.
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post #260 of 471 Old 10-13-2015
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Re: Florida is at it again

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Sunset Lake is not a 'natural waterway', that pre-existed the development surrounding its perimeter... It is a man-made feature, and in fact would not exist today, were it not for the creation of the Sunset Islands
This really doesn't have any weight. The waterway I live on was also man-made. I cannot choose what water activities are able to occur there.

Let's say I decide I don't like jet skiers.... Would you think it correct for me to contribute to some politician to attempt to enact a law to restrict jet ski use behind my house??

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