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post #61 of 63 Old 08-22-2015
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Re: Compromises

Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
As for specifics:

Not designed for motion comfort in a seaway.
Now you are scaring me. I do not like a rough ride. I've been in them, and don't like it. Why is this boat particularly uncomfortable? Again what would be a boat that exemplifies one that wouldn't have the Tartan's motion comfort drawbacks and why.
David- I love this thread. My wife and I are going through pretty much the same process, but our timeline may be a bit further down the road than yours- I don't think we're going to be seriously looking for at least another 2 years.. In all this time, we've gone back and forth so many times in terms of what boat to get, and we've just settled on not settling until we really define where we want to cruise and how (I'm sure I've read that somewhere, probably here). Anyway- I've done enough ocean sailing to agree with you on this point, and if we choose unwisely, it will kill the whole adventure. I found this page to be somewhat helpful: Motion Comfort Ratio - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

It's just one factor, but one that I think is critical to boat choice. We've had our hearts settled for maybe the past 2 years on one of the aluminum centerboard boats (probably the Allures 45 or Boreal 44), but I've been revisiting the J-133 idea. I've crewed on a friend's J-130. The motion comfort is ok for me, but I'm pretty sure my sweetie would not agree with certain sea states, especially out in the gulf stream, "condo jumping" when it starts to blow out there. I've raced on a Swan 56 doing exactly that, but we were sailing upwind, which I'd do my best to avoid with my wife. The reality of the conditions we're likely to encounter most of the time while cruising (light air probably?), I think suggests this topic will go on forever discussing rig dimensions and sail inventory.. at least until we buy, then I'll stop reading sailnet ;-)
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post #62 of 63 Old 08-22-2015
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Re: Compromises

Not that it can't be done or done well, but I think you may be biting off quite a project and then, when you are done, you will have a boat that is painfully difficult to resell, since few people will even be thinking about a "custom" boat of that type and cost.
Racing boats can be re-rigged to be sailed shorthanded, sure. Lose the backstays, move all the lines to the helm...Are you also going to be moving enough fittings to want or need to strip the entire deck so it can be repainted and not look like everything has been moved around? Will there be some expensive winch changes, etc, involved?
Can you find a suitably short keel (let's say SIX feet zero) or will that also be an expensive mod? With the mast perhaps reduced to compensate for less keel, or adding more ballast and slowing it down instead?
Then there's weight and floating on the lines. OK, let's say you subtract ten big 235 crew and trade them even for your cruising cloths, kitchenware, music, tools....Now what about the tankage? Typical offshore tankage might call for 48 hours of fuel and what would you like, 100 gallons of water? 150? Plus a holding tank for when you are in harbor, maybe 20-30 gallons? SO, maybe 60 gallons of fuel, 30 of waste, 150 of water...240 gallons at about eight pounds per, oops, almost a ton of additional weight, not counting the tanks themselves.
And, as the folks at J/boats will tell you, many racers are built with a lightweight "docking engine". Will your choices be offshore racers with suitable cruising engines, with enough power to keep you off lee shores for 24 hours?
Will the interior be stripped down, for serious racing? (When it gets really serious, there's a bucket someplace, but no hot water and no head compartment at all.)

Dunno...with careful choices maybe some of those boats can be converted nicely. But the PHRF numbers are going to be meaningless as you start to make changes to the boat and the payload. It might make more sense to just look at "What are people using for serious fast cruising?" and work from a list of CRUISING boats, not trying to build one the hard way. I don't think any designed tries to build a SLOW cruiser, they just put certain other values (like seakindliness and payload and heads) ahead of the speed target.
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post #63 of 63 Old 08-23-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Compromises

Well it looks like this thread is not a total joke even though it most certainly seems that way to people with more experience.
At least some people are getting something out of it.

I went to see the Tartan yesterday and while it had some serious upgrades, namely the Leisure Furl and the bow thruster the condition of the boat scared me.

The original owner didn't care for the boat and other than the big ticket items the current owner didn't do the little stuff. It looked old as old as a late 80's boat.

Their were deck cracks where the bow pulpit was repaired after an event but the deck was not fixed. The interior wood was completely worn and pealed.

The engine looked worn not bright and shinny like other boats of that age. It had a new oil diaper below the engine almost like there was a problem that was cleaned up the best they could then a new pad was put down.

The bilge was about the same as a 15k 1980's boat.

I got a really bad feeling about the boat that it was due for a stem to stern refit.

I'm pretty sure it was bought new used for 10 years, ignored for 3 years and then the current owner dumped some money on big stuff before buying his 60' power boat and losing interest.

As far as I'm concerned it is a project boat and to me if I wanted that boat badly I might pay 150 not 250 so there is no point pursuing it as I really don't want to work that much.

I'm still waiting for Jeff_h to drop by and fill me in on some of my questions as the model itself is interesting, he is probably off sailing.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 08-23-2015 at 02:37 AM.
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