It's all in how you look at things. - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-16-2016 Thread Starter
Catamarans are the best
 
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It's all in how you look at things.

so, I've come to the conclusion that forward thinkers (as myself) tend to post things that in the end result, will be to their benefit. As to say, a person can be pretty blind to the opposite opinion, even if that opinion is just as unfounded as one you may propose. Do you follow me? Here's a few examples I see.

Say for instance, you are as myself, a charter boat owner. Now, in any topic that is the least bit related to buying a boat and asks should you buy an ex-charter boat or a personal boat, or maybe the posts doesn't even distinguish between buying personal or charter.. but it will enter the topic eventually. It always happens, an owner of non-charter boat will chime in "buy a good used boat, but DON'T buy an ex-charter boat, they will be used up".. and of course, a charter boat owner will chime in (as I do) "every personal boat I ever looked at year for year was in much worse shape than the charter boat coming out of the program".

Of course, I know that not all personal boats are trash (but a lot are), and just like I know all charter boats are not perfect (but most are)...
See what I'm saying. It behoves me to brag up the ex-charter boats because I own one and someday, maybe not for 20 years, it will be on the market, and I want charter boats to have a good name.. a better name then a personal boat. BUT, does it really matter.. NO, what matters is, what is the shape the boat is in NOW.. not what it did 5 years ago.. or last year. What kind of shape is it in NOW.

So, as a charter boat owner, I want all the best said about charter boats.. Now, what if I was in the market for a boat, and I was looking at charter boats.. but wished they were a bit cheaper. Would a person start bashing the charter boats.. turn everyone off from buying them, try to get the market price of charter boats down. Do you think it would even work as a strategy? Nowadays, with the internet and the sponge effect for information and homework a person tends to do way above and beyond the norm.. it just might.

Same could be said when it gets to the more details of the boat.. for instance.. if my boat has drawer refrigeration versus top loading or door refrigeration.. of course, I should build up all the virtues of the drawer refrigeration.. Or lets say anchors.. and I have a Mantus.. don't you think I might let everyone know they are the best? (I am not affiliated with Mantus).. but now, if someone is reading my "specifications" on yacht world 20 years from now.. and it lists Mantus and Drawer refrigeration.. maybe this post shows up in whoever's homework and they glean that those are two positives over the next boat they're interested in.. and it gets them just over the mark for which one to choose. No matter if top loading refrigeration is better or if delta anchor's are better.. or even if it's a wash and no better or worse.

I won't even go into coastal cruiser vs blue water.. chriminy, don't you know that most boats have certifications that will answer that question right off the bat.. end of discussion. (oh, I am glad that my boat was sailed from S. Africa to the caribbean... I guess it's blue water then!)

Just some thoughts. Just having fun with ya! Nothing too serious.
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

Every boat has to be judged on its current merits.. wherever it came from and however it was used. I don't think you can treat all charter boats with the same yardstick, not can you do that for private sales.

Among Charter boats, I do think those in the tropical charter trade will suffer more from UV degredation to the outer surfaces than a charter boat from Maine, WA state, or a Canadian region. I think you have to vet the charter company as much as the boat itself. Engine hours always seem to be an issue with charter boats as relatively inexperienced sailors on timelines rack up the hours. But a high hour well-maintained engine is a better bet than a 20 year old engine with 150 hours on it, most likely.

Private boats on the east coast that are hauled for half a year could be said to be 'half the age' of a similar west coast year-round-floater. However there are also issues with extended dry storage, frequent haulouts, improper blocking, increased risk of freezing, esp if winterizing is neglected, etc etc.

So yeah, it's all in how you look at it - taking each example totally on its own merits. (however if you have reliable information that a particular boat has been run aground several times a year that one might get an instant pass..... )
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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There's a couple of different types of people but 2 are:
Early uptakers of technology
Tenacious keeper of old technology.

An early uptaker will grab a new 'box' from the chandeley and say "yay! Look a computerized gizmo".
The holder-on of old technology is immediately stripped of his knowledge and standing of the last 30 or 40 years because the new box has made him redundant. Worse he can't even get the new box to work for him.

The holder-on of old tech then gets on the net saying you should never rely on the new box. Its bad. It kills you etc. He says you should still use his old box that only he can teach you, thus trying to recapture his self worth.

Whole boats are the same. The old tech guy owns his boat for 40 years but now can't afford the new tech boat so he has to denigrate all new tech boats. Pretends not to see a new boat sail double the speed past him

I am trying to upload a photo of my 93 year old uncle helping build a shed, up a ladder drilling a hole! He's using a battery operated drill. So what changes he would have seen in drills in his life! But using the new one maybe what keeps the old bugger alive
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 01-16-2016 at 04:06 PM.
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post

Whole boats are the same. The old tech guy owns his boat for 40 years but now can't afford the new tech boat so he has to denigrate all new tech boats. Pretends not to see a new boat sail double the speed past him
and since 60+% of forum people have a boat 30+ years old , that explains a lot

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post #5 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

Good points, interesting observations.

What it took me a long time to learn is that personal experiences are not always the ONLY way to do things, so that answers to questions might tend to be OPTIONS to consider, not absolutes.

I also have been using links to earlier discussions or a lot of the saved stuff on our one-design association website & forum. No need to reinvent the wheel.

All the best.

Stu Jackson, Catalina 34, 1986, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#), Maple Bay, BC, Canada
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post #6 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

Hey,

A couple of more or less random thoughts on this:

-The more I learn the less I know. The more time I spend sailing and around boats, the more I realize there are many valid points of view and that what is right for me may not be right for someone else.

-Charter boats ARE worth less than comparable privately owned boats. Just compare prices on yachtworld of private boats and prices of boats on the moorings web sites.
Moorings Brokerage Used Boats
Note that this doesn't mean that used charter boats aren't a good deal. Personally I could see buying an ex charter boat. For the same money you can get a much newer boat.

-People are always prejudiced to believe what they have is better than what others have.

Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

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post #7 of 18 Old 01-16-2016 Thread Starter
Catamarans are the best
 
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

Along these same lines..
I always wonder if threads like the current one on insurance here recently (degrading one particular insurance company).. couldn't be outside motivated.. it starts out really putting down an insurance company.. and then everyone joins in.. they extoll the virtues of the company they use (sometimes in denial that it might not be such a good deal), they maybe put down a company they didn't get quite the satisfaction the were expecting from it. This goes on for several pages worth of posts.

All of a sudden, the OP, comes in and says..pages later, of course, "I found the company of companies!" Low and behold.. all of a sudden you're googling that company to find out if it's time to switch.. Or if you're looking for insurance quotes, it's another one that gets added to the list. So many times I think, especially when the OP is coming in with their first post ever, that they are just a means to an end for the company they're about to promote. These type of threads I especially don't like to give the time of day to. Especially insurance.. because if you've dealt with any insurance company, you know.. they can be good, and the same company can be bad.

But say.. along these lines.. in the future when I want to sell my boat.. I'm going to start a thread about some other boat, let the rants go on.. and then, have some of my cronies come online and say how if they could they'd by that boat listed on yacht world or wherever I have it listed.. and have a link to it.. and all of a sudden, everyone's thinking .. my boat is THE boat.. yeah. yeah.. I think it'll work. Don't tell anyone I told you about this... Won't happen for a few years anyway.. But I'm thinkin'.
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

I can't see markets being manipulated on forums. If anywhere, all opinions and arguments are made here. Right, wrong and otherwise.

In fact, pretty much anything you say or believe will be debated by someone.


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post #9 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
In fact, pretty much anything you say or believe will be debated by someone.
Bulltwaddle!



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post #10 of 18 Old 01-16-2016
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Re: It's all in how you look at things.

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