Florida House Bill 703 (2016) - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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maritime law not covered in us constitution. research better.
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Florida House Bill 703 (2016)

Minne-
Bear in mind that fourth amendment "car search" cases went into the US Supreme Court twice in the early 70's, first upheld then reversed and thrown out. SO nice to know the "none most reasonable men in the land" can find themselves to be wrong. Cars being a special case, because you need a license and as such have to "right" to drive them, the law is actually applicable only to "cars" and drivers.

But contemporaneous correspondence from the Founding Fathers made the intent and purpose of the 4th Amendment very clear. They were concerned with carriages and riders on the King's own highways, as individuals simply didn't travel any distance by private boats. Shipping was SHIPPING back then, you didn't just hop down to the next state, so it wasn't considered.

They wanted to be able to carry seditious and treasonous papers preaching openly for revolution and downthrow of the government, without the King's own men being able to stop the and search their saddlebags or coaches. Yeah, it kind of was that simple and that extreme. No want? No warrant? NO SEARCH even if you are trying to find those damned Colonial revolutionaries on their way to foment revolution.

The people who don't understand and support this, are among the 80% of the public that were never originally given the right to vote. And that was intentional too.
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Florida House Bill 703 (2016)

hellosailor. I'm not following. By the time the 4th amendment was ratified (long after the constitution was passed, btw), no one was worried about colonial revolutionaries on their way to form a revolution. The British had been booted a decade earlier.


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post #14 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Florida House Bill 703 (2016)

Minne-
A lot of what the Founding Fathers did was openly discussed as being protection for the future. I don't remember who, it was one of "the gang" of honored menu, who said that the only thing worse than needing to throw down another "king" would be the need to do so again--without arms. And so the argument continued, and the express purpose of the second amendment was added, to ensure that the people could retain the military power to throw down another repressive government. The term "militia", by the way, does not apply to independent minding cam wackos as the Nooze would have you believe. What the Nooze often call Militia are legally referred to in many states as "illegal paramilitary groups" whereas the Militia are formally recognized and provided for in every state except Florida. Militia were historically locally formed, locally elected their own officers, and swore support to their State--as opposed to their government. In the US today, most male citizens between ages 17/18 and 45 (or "able bodied") are in fact still members of the state and federal militias, two separate organizations.
But in the aftermath of the Civil War, when marauders and raiders claimed to be just militia keeping the peace, the Fed tried to shut down the entire system, eventually in 1903 starting what was to become the National Guard system, who are actually State Militia that have been federalized and place on loan to the US Military. And that mandatory service, as a militiaman, is in fact the legal basis of our draft system. Which is why Congress will never totally repeal the militias, they don't really want to mess with that can of worms, and lose the ability to draft at the same time.
The "Constitution" is often considered as a cornerstone to our nation. In some ways it is. But remember, there was a Confederation (not the later Confederacy) of these United States, a national government, which was shortly after dissolved and replace with the current Federal Republic.
The Constitution didn't happen with the speed of a web page, it took some years for many things to be settled. And some signers agreed to sign ONLY is certain amendments were to immediately follow in the Bill of Rights. The second amendment being prime among them.
Funny thing now, in the Nooze you hear more and more of machete attacks and cars racking down civilians on sidewalks....and machetes never run out of bullets.

So, sailboats? Effectively they didn't exist when the laws were written to cover travelers and their horses. I' sure Mr. Franklin would have said "Well, obviously, they are one and the same, a means of personal conveyance." While some more recent courts have said "Gee, nope, they just weren't mentioned."

And that's the slippery slope towards that "another" repressive government that the Founding Fathers were sure would come along. Heck, they'd read Machiavelli, too.
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Florida House Bill 703 (2016)

Quote:
Originally Posted by caberg View Post
Explain how a suspicionless stop and search of your vehicle is illegal under the 4th Amendment, but a boat is not. Smugglers use cars too.
The explanation is very simple: Because the Supreme Court said so.

Since the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of these matters, that's it. There is no one else to appeal to.

Now, you can certainly disagree with the Supreme Court's opinion on the matter. They are not infallible, they have made mistakes before, and this could very well be another one of them. Nonetheless, until they rule differently, it is what it is.
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Florida House Bill 703 (2016)

Acutally, all considering I remember the 1973-ish Supreme Court rulings on that very well. First they had ruled the (random, arbitrary, whatever) automobile searches were unconstitutional. Then in the next session, another suit was brought saying that since DRIVING is a privilege, not a right, that privilege could carry restrictions and burdens, and it was through that weasel logic that they allowed the first ruling to be reversed.

The ruling was specific to the facts and issues, so unless you've got an identical "boating license" required before you can set sail...legally there's no comparison and someone with five or ten years and some extra bucks on their hands could make a good new case for boaters.
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Florida House Bill 703 (2016)

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Just a matter of time before we all get to subsidize the rebuilding of more houses where houses should never have been built.
It's already happening (for years now). My last home was at 4830' MSL in the high desert of NM and in an area that had never had a flood. I got to pay for Federal flood insurance. This money was used to rebuild those homes you are talking about.

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