Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick) - Page 10 - SailNet Community
 184Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #91 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Captain Obvious
 
Sal Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,159
Thanks: 25
Thanked 89 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
I agree with the poster who said that the type of sailing that is affordable is not being promoted. Even learning to sail has become a very expensive proposition. In my area a basic keelboat class runs $700. If you want to take the whole series of classes you can expect to rack up a bill in the $thousands$.


The financing situation makes it difficult too. Banks will no longer finance a sailboat that is over 20 years old even though there are plenty of boats out there much older than that that are still very fine and capable boats, until they aren't. So you've got a really nice older (over 20 years) 35' boat and you put it up for sale because you can no longer use it, have health issues, inherited it, whatever the case, and it doesn't sell because no one comes along that has cash for it and it's not eligible for financing. It sits, it deteriorates. The owner has lost interest, or maybe whatever condition is compelling him to sell is also preventing him from using and maintaining the boat. But it can't pass into the hands of someone who could use it because those young people who might want to have that nice old boat as a family boat (because they sure can't afford a new one at $150K+ for the average 30 footer) don't have the funds to pay cash and can't get a loan. The boat is pretty much doomed at that point, and even if it started out in good condition it will become a derelict in short order. If only boat lending was based strictly on boat condition, equipment, and survey value rather than on age....
You made some good points, but I think you left out one of the most obvious boat killers - marina costs! A 35 foot boat, $125/ ft dock cost and half again for storage and you are close to $7k per year that never ends and just goes up. That's your boat killer and why so few would take on an old boat, because the storage and dockage for a $10,000 35 ft boat are exactly the same as for a $150,000 35 ft boat.

I don't see a ready solution. Maybe tax breaks for marinas that keep cost down for locals. Not sure if the public would support that - maybe combined with legislation that requires cheap public access to the water. Or buying the development rights, like they do with farms. Just spit balling... However, as long as someone is willing to pay the $7k, plenty of marinas will just cut up or crush old boats and move new ones in.
Faster, LoboPops and jwing like this.

Sal Paradise - Armchair Circumnavigator

Senior Researcher - Dunning Kruger
Sal Paradise is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Yamsailor
 
Yamsailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,080
Thanks: 2
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 14
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

Bingo!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by albrazzi View Post
very interesting thread. Personally i believe we (boomers) were fortunate to live through the heyday of recreational sailing, there was enough money and inexpensive plastic boats around where we could all enjoy our disposable income in this great pastime. I hope there are always enough interested people who can afford the sport but it just wont be the same going forward, as the new boat decline backs up into fewer affordable used examples the sport will suffer. Of course jeff's comments are encouraging and while there will always be pockets of support there are trends that are hard to buck.
I'm doing as much as i can with my three generation racing crew, and i navigated the entire 120 mile maiden delivery voyage on my current vessel using only the gps program on my smartphone. They do have practical uses. Get some apps, sailflow, navionics,
to mention a few.

Sail Your Story!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Yamsailor is offline  
post #93 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Senior Member
 
Tanski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 687
Thanks: 2
Thanked 46 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

I personally don't think it's cost as such. It's attitude with young people. Can't be seen with last years Iphone, no way they will be seen with an affordable 30 year old boat. If it's not a brand new 2016 whatever they aren't interested.
I know a girl in her 30's who serves coffee for a living but has brand new Iphones, Ipads and an Apple laptop attached to herself 24/7, add that up it's more than I paid for my boat. The plans for all those devices in Canada cost more than my mooring and winter storage put together.
Not to mention the thousands in tattoos that she has covered herself in.........
It's all about how young people are perceived by their "friends" now. Gotta keep up with the kardasions on the Starbucks paycheck!
Tanski is offline  
 
post #94 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,972
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanski View Post
I personally don't think it's cost as such. It's attitude with young people. Can't be seen with last years Iphone, no way they will be seen with an affordable 30 year old boat. If it's not a brand new 2016 whatever they aren't interested.
I know a girl in her 30's who serves coffee for a living but has brand new Iphones, Ipads and an Apple laptop attached to herself 24/7, add that up it's more than I paid for my boat. The plans for all those devices in Canada cost more than my mooring and winter storage put together.
Not to mention the thousands in tattoos that she has covered herself in.........
It's all about how young people are perceived by their "friends" now. Gotta keep up with the kardasions on the Starbucks paycheck!
Interesting all these things were invented that we don't "need" but are so appealing we "have to" have them. Pretty damn smart industry if you ask me. Add all the cable, internet, and phone service not to mention the devices, and there's a Boat right there if you choose. My 17 YO who sails with me regularly doesn't have a smart phone and doesn't even care she just not typical anymore.
albrazzi is offline  
post #95 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Captain Obvious
 
Sal Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,159
Thanks: 25
Thanked 89 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

The girls next door to us ( 10, 12 years old ) can't ride their pedal bikes because after 100 feet they are just stopped standing over their bikes texting. So that addiction will take a ton of people off the water right there in the next 20 years. Unfortunately - as they demonstrate - it won't take them off the road.
travlineasy likes this.

Sal Paradise - Armchair Circumnavigator

Senior Researcher - Dunning Kruger
Sal Paradise is online now  
post #96 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Senior Member
 
TomMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 956
Thanks: 6
Thanked 62 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

One reason sailing may be stronger in some areas than others - public access to the water. We're lucky here on the coast of Maine to have lot's of public water access. A large part is due to our fishing industry and heritage. Fishermen and their towns realized early on they needed water access to work and live.

The coast of Mass. is another great example of fine public water access.

While many coastal municipalities sold their water assets (for a pittance) long ago, all is not lost.

My daughter lives in Brooklyn and works in Manhattan. On her walk to the train today, she sent me these photos of the Brooklyn waterfront.

There is new sailing activity along the NYC waterfront. This whole Brooklyn waterfront (if I recall correctly), was privately owned until just a decade or so ago. It was nasty, industrial.

Brooklyn bought it back and turned industrial waterfront into parks. And there is new energy in community sailing programs for anyone interested, and the interest is there!

Another 'new' promoter is sailboat racing. Global these days, racing sailboats are attracting people to the sport. I assume these are a few of AC boats that raced in the harbor this week.

I'm of the opinion that many young people today are attracted to the speed side of sailing. And sailing always draws due to it's unique mode of travel.

On the other hand, I don't think 'cruising' on a sailboat has as much interest with young people as it did on the boomers.

But sailing is holding it's own.



And look at this! A new publicly owned marina, in Brooklyn NY, right across the river from Manhattan.



I'd say, sailing is on the increase in Maine - and Manhattan.
seaner97 and Sal Paradise like this.

Tom Young sailing a 1961 38' Alden Challenger, CHRISTMAS out of
Rockport, Maine.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

'I'd have written a shorter post, but I didn't have the time', Mark Twain.
TomMaine is offline  
post #97 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Senior Member
 
Tanski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 687
Thanks: 2
Thanked 46 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

The real ironic part of this is it's the generation bemoaning the "death of sailing" that for the most part created the generation who don't sail and can't live without their phones and what not!
What did you people do wrong?!? Not may fault - no kids! LOL ;-) Cheers
seaner97, Minnesail and ultraclyde like this.
Tanski is offline  
post #98 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,426
Thanks: 5
Thanked 135 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

Mount 3D gopro on deck. A variety of sailing conditions on an ap to be used at leisure by those stunned enough to not know from reality. Go cruising with the profits from sale of ap.
Capt Len is online now  
post #99 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Senior Member
 
VF84Sluggo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 125
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

There's a well-known person on this site that has been documenting the trouble, and huge expense, he's had and incurred since having some work done on his boat in preparation for a big sailing trip. When I read stuff like this, it scares the dickens out of me as far as wanting to own a sailboat again.

Sure, I can hear it now, "if you can't handle (fill in the blank) unexpected expenses, then you have no business owning a sailboat." You know what? I have to agree. And perhaps this is why you now see so many derelict slip queens: some unexpected HUGE expense to repair a break-down happened, and then it's the end for that owner. And with the boat needing that huge $$$$$ repair, there are no buyers interested. So she sits and rots, and maybe sinks.

I found out that for me, I can buy a sailboat; I just can't afford one. There is a difference.
seaner97, LoboPops, jwing and 1 others like this.

Everything always looks darkest before it goes completely to hell...

Last edited by VF84Sluggo; 05-12-2016 at 03:25 PM.
VF84Sluggo is offline  
post #100 of 230 Old 05-12-2016
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central NC
Posts: 53
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Is sailboat ownership dying ( or at least sick)

Sluggo, I think you're spot-on. This is particularly the case for larger boats that end up sitting idle in the water. Small problems become big problems that go unnoticed because, well, we don't have enough time to spend with the boat. The general increase in the cost of everything means a boat repair shop has to charge big bucks to stay in business (or to make the owner independently wealthy, in some cases).

But, I think there is still a good potential in the trailer-sailor class of boats. Getting a boat out of the water is not only cheaper to store, but also greatly enhances the life of the boat (so long as it's properly covered and stored). (Speaking of which, it's amazing how many boats get parked somewhere without the benefit of a $25 tarp. )
LoboPops likes this.
bones92 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailboat race falters with dying wind, will return next year - Today's News-Herald NewsReader News Feeds 0 03-16-2015 05:20 AM
Sick baby on sailboat in Pacific draws rescuers - KMOV.com NewsReader News Feeds 1 04-06-2014 08:24 AM
Sailboat Cost of Ownership fredct Boat Review and Purchase Forum 65 06-21-2013 03:42 PM
The downside of sailboat ownership deniseO30 General Discussion (sailing related) 41 12-05-2007 01:10 PM
Sailboat Ownership, On The Cheap ... NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 02-18-2007 04:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome