boat insurance - how many self insure - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 66 Old 06-10-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
If you're worried about litigation, that would imply some liability to someone else. Liability insurance covers that, so I don't see why it would be "just not enough."

Other than liability, you are insuring for your own loss. If you would rather take the risk than spend the money on insurance, for your own loss, I'd say that's a choice each person can and should make for themselves. If the boat is not a major portion of your total net worth, then it might make more sense to take the risk.

One of the boats that I own is a 15' daysailer. It's total value is well under $2,000. I have an umbrella liability policy, so that's not an issue. I carry no insurance on that boat, because it would make absolutely no financial sense to do so.
Really? How much 'liability' you have or your max? $100k, $200k, $1 million? Have you seen what some of the hospital costs are for 1 person with serious injuries, what if you have 2, 3, 6 people with serious injuries or a death?

You have enough assets to cover those lawsuits you will be entertained with? I bet not... Sorry but I'm well aware of the liability one must be prepared for... My son and wife were in a car accident and the other driver only had the 'limited' liability you speak of... glad my insurance was over $350K with umbrella coverage over that and the total loss for medical for the two was over $500K... the idiot driver had cheapo insurance that only covered $25k max liability... You need to think it through a little more or you've been super lucky to date!
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post #12 of 66 Old 06-10-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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Really? How much 'liability' you have or your max? $100k, $200k, $1 million? Have you seen what some of the hospital costs are for 1 person with serious injuries, what if you have 2, 3, 6 people with serious injuries or a death?

You have enough assets to cover those lawsuits you will be entertained with? I bet not... Sorry but I'm well aware of the liability one must be prepared for... My son and wife were in a car accident and the other driver only had the 'limited' liability you speak of... glad my insurance was over $350K with umbrella coverage over that and the total loss for medical for the two was over $500K... the idiot driver had cheapo insurance that only covered $25k max liability... You need to think it through a little more or you've been super lucky to date!
I agree with this, with a small liability insurance you can really get caught in a bad world, if it will not cover everything else then you will be out of pocket, liability insurance does not mean by default that you are covered for damages to the other.
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

I've got two million liability, I don't understand how you guys are thinking replacement value insurance is going to help you if you hurt 2, 3, or 6 fictitious people.

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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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I carry insurance because we can't pay the fuel spillage fine. Also, self insured people, do you have the means and expertise to rise a sunken vessel?
Wouldn't fuel spillage come under the heading of liability insurance? Just askin'. Obviously you need to be able to cover your damages.

Regarding spillage on a small vessel with a 20 gallon tank, I doubt that is going to come up. Technically, yes, but in practicality, no. Raising a small boat is a cost, but not terrible.

The fear is crashing into a few gold platers, a fire that spreads, or personal injury. Everything else seems manageable.

---

Clearly the problem is that "liability insurance" has a broad definition. But so does any insurance.
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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Wouldn't those expenses be covered by liability?
no. liability covers the damage others property but not to the environment if the boat sinks and you don't pay someone to float it and cleanup the spill you will be fined and the government agency will get their money, the environmental coverage is separate from liability coverage
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post #16 of 66 Old 06-10-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

Liability insurance - no problem - just damage coverage to the boat. I have owned larger, financed insured sailboats, had a claim and no real problem - but going forward - I want to keep things as simple as possible - 30 feet or under - tiller steering , able to be easily sailed solo, my wife is OK daysailing but she would not do any passages - bit fraid of the water - I tell her you can drown just as easily in 8 feet of water as 800 - but somehow does not buy my logic ( although she will hop on the back of a moto with me which is 10 times more dangerous)

Simple boat , older but good design, sailing mostly solo in Caribbean from Florida ( and around FL) - if I self insure - would be a cost saving - I can bank the money from insurance and put it in rainy day fund + don't have to worry about restrictions as far as where I can keep the boat.

The ideal boat would be a Cal 29 - possibly early 70's model, I am not sure you could get damage coverage on something that old anyway -

I owned a Cruising Cal 36 in the past , late 60's model, I like the Cal's sailing ability and construction - had insurance on it. But with the consolidation of insurance companies - which I believe will continue - there may be very limited choices in the future - expect rising premiums and more restrictions. Insurance companies are a bit like banks - very highly regulated - tough to survive unless you are very large.
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry... simple yet concise!
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

From the boat US page;

Five Ways Your Boat's Insurance Policy Can Fail You : BoatUS Press Room

Liability-only policies: Looking through the claims files, injuries make the top ten list for payouts not because of their frequency, but because settlements tend to be expensive. Having no insurance could leave you open to a six-figure settlement. If you have a liability-only policy, the better ones will cover injuries as well as salvage, wreck removal and fuel-spill liability.

So as with any insurance policy, bank or legal document, make sure you read the fine print.

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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

I have full coverage right now, but that's b/c it's cheap in my home waters. Once we leave here we'll be liability only. Hull is our problem.

Insurance is simply one way of mitigating risk. There are many other methods, most of which I value much higher. For me, I'd rather anchor near someone who has invested well in skills and equipment over a hefty insurance policy.

BTW, I've said this many times, but if anyone cares to look at the real risks involved in most sailing/cruising activities, you'll see they are exceedingly small. Most people who insist on full insurance see one part of the risk equation; they see the potential impact. They ignore the odds of something happening.

Risk ~ impact of event X likelihood of event.

If either factor is is small, risk is small.

For most cruisers where money is not infinite, the cash spent on insurance would be better spent investing in better boat systems and skills.

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post #20 of 66 Old 06-10-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
One of the boats that I own is a 15' daysailer. It's total value is well under $2,000. I have an umbrella liability policy, so that's not an issue. I carry no insurance on that boat, because it would make absolutely no financial sense to do so.
Be sure that your umbrella policy has a watercraft endorsement, otherwise it may not cover you for daysailer accident liability. As part of the watercraft endorsement, most insurance companies require you to have every vessel covered for liability up to the point where the umbrella kicks in. You had better check these things out, since your daysailor may be excluded from umbrella coverage.

In order to avoid my umbrella policy getting cancelled, I need to provide proof of underlying coverage on all three of my boats (including the motorless 14' Phantom daysailor). And they're not bluffing - I get a cancellation notice every year because one of the office workers forgets to ask me to send in my underlying policies from BoatUS. And each year, the cancellation is rescinded once I send in the stuff.

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