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post #41 of 66 Old 06-11-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

Umbrella liability, right now through Geico, sailboats up to 27' are covered for liability. Its right there on the policy.

Many people have a fender bender or small claim and they see it covered quickly. They think that someoen else's liability coverafge is going to be their ticket to a new boat. Large claims are not like that, not matter who, or what you policy limits are. They try real hard to avoid paying that $300k.

Just something to think about for those who happily think their neighbor's insurance policy is just going to replace their boat and who disparage someone who doesn't have insurance. You may well have to sue either person. Its just that insurance will defend them. And in some cases admiralty law will limit the liability.

Like most things,I take the middle path - just get some insurance, whatever you can afford and be careful.
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post #42 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
Total cost to taxpayers: $663,000 and probably more hidden costs not shown on this tally... Now suppose you had to pay for this rescue if the Coast Guard did not do this sort of thing and must be paid by your insurance... you think that 'self funded' fund you have would take care of this?
Yes ... would be devastating I'm sure. But once again, all you're seeing/presenting is the impact of an event. You're ignoring the likelihood. The odds of any serious event happening to any of us while on the water is tiny. The stats are clear. Look up USCG marine accident stats, or some such thing. There's a great online database where you can do all sorts of personal research on the subject.

The point I'm trying to make (if there is much of a point here), is that people need to think rationally about the actual risk, and not just be driven by fear of "what it" scenarios. Risk is proportional to both the Impact and the Likelihood of the event happening. The fact is, most of the boating and sailing most people do is, by actual measure, exceedingly safe. The number of people injured, drowned or blown up in alcohol fires (or any fuel fire) each year is a rounding error. The amount of actual damage to boats due to accidents and negligence is also very small. This means the real risk to most of us is very small.

If you can't live with this level of risk, or if money is no issue, then by all means, purchase lots of insurance. But for most of us, resources are not infinite, and we all need to make choices as to where best to spend our boat bucks. Money spent on improving your boat will more likely result in a safer boat, compared to wasting it on an insurance policy.

But you're right, of course. If you're so lucky as to sink, crash, or get blown up in a fiery alcohol fire, then you'll win the insurance lottery. In that case, you'll be happy to have lots of insurance.

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Fun. Thanks. I feel safer now

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post #43 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

Everyone!!!!! please stay safely tied at the dock until you have at least $660 Milion of insurance coverage.

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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

Maritime law is a far cry from the United States conventional litigation. Shop for insurance and choose carefully.
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post #45 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

Having been hit by a right bastard who, although he has money (more than I from all indications). Bastard is uninsured, along with no boat registration nor recent documentation.... Bastard walked away scot free. I'm damn sure glad I had insurance, even though I had to eat the deductible.

You may ask... why didn't the insurance co. subrogate? Well, they did, and Bastard ignored the requests, and ins.co. let it go. I suppose it was that it would cost ins.co. more to pursue than the damage amount. Isn't that nice. I'm still out my deductible.

As far as I'm concerned, insurance is as much for the poor sap who you will drift or run into as much as for yourself. It's just the decent thing to do to at least carry liability.

If you can't afford liability insurance, YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE BOAT.
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post #46 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

We just finished the annual excercise concerning boat insurance. Over 5k. between base and rider. Rider more than base. Reality is this question revolves around where you sail and what you do. With current policy have no captain requirement nor crew restrictions. Can sail anywhere I want in Canadian, US waters and the entire Carribean basin.
I will probably pay the extra to do this for a few years. Freedom is not free. I'm free to do what I want without restrictions. Then will scale back. I have a loan on the boat. Interest on the loan is less than return on the long term investments I hold that more then exceed amount of the loan. Bank requires insurance. Even adding that in I'm still playing with other people's money. View it as cost of doing business.
I have never had issues clearing in/out. I ve never had issues with any yard. I've never had a claim ( knock on wood) but am cognizant it could happen. The boat is my major physical asset ( once my residence sells) beyond income generating real estate. Penny wise-pound foolish. Others experience may differ.

Only thing I'd mention is hull insurance. Had choice of 1% v. 2%deductable while on passage. Choose 2% as figure if this claim occurred I'd probably be dead.

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post #47 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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...As far as I'm concerned, insurance is as much for the poor sap who you will drift or run into as much as for yourself. It's just the decent thing to do to at least carry liability.

If you can't afford liability insurance, YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE BOAT.
And there's that moralizing I was talking about.

IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD AN OVERSIZED ROCNA WITH 300 FEET OF 3/8" ALL CHAIN YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE BOAT!
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post #48 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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Yes ... would be devastating I'm sure. But once again, all you're seeing/presenting is the impact of an event. You're ignoring the likelihood. The odds of any serious event happening to any of us while on the water is tiny. The stats are clear. Look up USCG marine accident stats, or some such thing. There's a great online database where you can do all sorts of personal research on the subject....
You keep repeating this claim as if it's some sort of proof that insurance is not worth it. But there's nothing new here. Insurance actuaries have access to that same data, and much more sources of information. They use that information to set insurance rates. When the likelihood of a payout is very low, the rates are reflect that.

Yes, the insurance company adds in a profit margin. But that profit margin is, by necessity, not exorbitant, because if it was then other insurance companies would rush into the yacht insurance business to capture some of that "easy money," and the competitive marketplace would force the rates back down.

That's how insurance, and economics, works. And that's why the multimillionaires who have sufficient money to self-insure still buy insurance anyway.

What you get in exchange for insurance is the knowledge that, in the case of a major accident, the insurance company protect you and, of it's someone else's fault, they will bring their vast resources into making sure the other guys pays. (How hard they work at this varies with the size of the payout and the likelihood of getting the money back.) It allows you to continue with your life without interfering with your job and/or family commitments.

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post #49 of 66 Old 06-12-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

In the past I have had issues with other boat owners with insurance, my boat at a small sailing club in Florida in a slip - at the time I had a larger boat ( Nicholson 303) that was fully insured - it was hurricane season and several storms came close to hitting us directly - most did their due diligence - doubled up dock lines, took off canvas ect ..., but there was a fair amount who did nothing, they did not use their boats much and felt since they had full insurance coverage if the worst happened they would be covered, problem was I liked my boat, and even though it was insured - I still did not want anything to happen to it. I would have been better off next to someone who might not had insurance but was more responsible for their boat. Luckily no damage.
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post #50 of 66 Old 06-12-2016
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Re: boat insurance - how many self insure

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You keep repeating this claim as if it's some sort of proof that insurance is not worth it. But there's nothing new here. Insurance actuaries have access to that same data, and much more sources of information. They use that information to set insurance rates. When the likelihood of a payout is very low, the rates are reflect that.
No ... I'm trying to put the value of insurance in context, which is something not done if all one focuses on is, "BUT WHAT IF!!!" There is definite value to insurance. It's just not that high for most boat owners.

And if you think insurance companies won't exploit a buyer's lack of knowledge, or won't use all their marketing tools -- including fear -- to maximize their sales, well I suspect you don't have a good grasp of how a capitalist economy actually works.

And you're right Outbound, sometimes we really have no choice. If the bank still owns the boat, then they will demand full insurance. Nothing to be done there.

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In the past I have had issues with other boat owners with insurance, my boat at a small sailing club in Florida in a slip - at the time I had a larger boat ( Nicholson 303) that was fully insured - it was hurricane season and several storms came close to hitting us directly - most did their due diligence - doubled up dock lines, took off canvas ect ..., but there was a fair amount who did nothing, they did not use their boats much and felt since they had full insurance coverage if the worst happened they would be covered, problem was I liked my boat, and even though it was insured - I still did not want anything to happen to it. I would have been better off next to someone who might not had insurance but was more responsible for their boat. Luckily no damage.
+1 Exactly.

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