Big Boys not paying their fair share? - Page 13 - SailNet Community
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post #121 of 131 Old 07-14-2016
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

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Originally Posted by caberg View Post
Doesn't your research prove that "the big boy" consider themselves above the law?
Doesn't prove it, but it's certainly a better hypothesis than the one that started this thread. It is clear, many don't feel they need to apply the sticker, the question is why. In order to prove a premise, the scientific method requires that you examine outcomes that would disapprove it. I've applied mine, so that isn't apparently a good theory that big boys (as defined in this thread), as a rule, consider themselves above the law.

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Forgetting to apply the sticker is one thing (I'm guilty of that) -- intentionally flouting the law is another.
Intentionally flouting is demonstrably overstated. First, more than one didn't even think it was actually required, which was born from the observation that so few do it. In fact, I had never seen the actual law, for a documented vessel, until linked here. One simply didn't even know he needed to register in RI, since he lived in MA and was registered there. He corrected that, when I mentioned it to him. For that matter, read the wide misunderstanding of the rules, from a variety of posters above. No flouting identified.

In fact, every State has laws that no one follows and are never enforced. There are mocking websites full of these, so I looked up RI. There is a law that requires you honk your horn, when overtaking another car on the left. By observation, everyone knows this is not actually required. One isn't flouting the law by failing to observe this one.

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Is it a vanity thing? The boat is too pretty for a state registration sticker?
Doesn't everyone feel registration numbers and stickers detract from the visual appeal of a boat? Does anyone think they are on the enhancing aesthetic side of the spectrum? If we've gotten used to them, that just makes us good subordinate subjects, I don't know about vanity.


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post #122 of 131 Old 07-14-2016
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

They definitely detract from the look of the boat. The registration numbers on non-documented boats are hideous. The stickers on the bow are bad enough, and I'd not fault anyone for not putting them on if they could get away with it.

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post #123 of 131 Old 07-16-2016
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

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They definitely detract from the look of the boat. The registration numbers on non-documented boats are hideous. The stickers on the bow are bad enough, and I'd not fault anyone for not putting them on if they could get away with it.
I guess it does bother some people but I've never documented my boats(even if they were previously). People can get weird about their boats and the status they feel from them. I just like mine because of how it performs for me. I think it's a pretty boat but I wouldn't spend extra $ on not putting Reg. #'s on it.

Because I roll and tip my hull every 3 - 4 years, I put my registration numbers on a piece of Lexan.

These reg #'s(size, visibility), are stretching the Maine rules(I don't mind doing that either )

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post #124 of 131 Old 07-16-2016
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

It's interesting to note basic premise of OP that stickers and numbers are decreasingly displayed as size goes up seems correct. What is contentious is the reason.
One can propose some of this is utility. Larger boats, even allowing for dock queens, are more likely to be liveaboards or actively cruising. As stationary liveaboards they are more likely to have interacted with local authorities. As active cruisers authorities are only concerned if their stay is prolonged beyond the window of fee and tax free stay. In either case stickers or number display is moot as paperwork will need to be reviewed. For those cruising beyond our shores pratique is the concern not state issues.
Given sun destroys stickers and numbers are aesethically unpleasing their absence is frequent. Small samples don't have sufficient N to draw conclusions and do not add to the conversation. Admittedly being informed of people's motivation in not displaying numbers may explain their absence in that case but beyond that is similarly uninformative.
Reviewing my budget these issues are financially irreverent. Sales and use taxes are not. Where the big boys are not bearing their burden is more likely in this area. Regardless of where I go one virtually never sees a true big boy with US documentation let alone state registration. Would suggest it's here that umbrage be placed. Owners benefitting from US citizenship and likely having got their resources from the the US economy but incorporated and titled offshore. It's the "not for sale in US waters " crowd that are circumventing their ethical burden. View this thread as concern about acne in a patient with cancer.
Ok throw stones now.

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post #125 of 131 Old 07-16-2016
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

Just for fun, Out. As to the scientific method, it takes substantial N to statistically prove a theory. It only takes one conflicting N to disprove it outright.

My fav example......

Your task is to provide the theory that comports with this observed outcome of a series of number...... 2,4,8

To test your theory, you apply different series to see if they are valid.

Nearly everyone assumes the theory is a series of numbers that double themselves, so first tests are something like 5,10,20. That does comport.

Then they'll guess 3,6,12. Still confirms the correct theory as well.

They can test thousands more of these doubling series, as well, and they are all valid. Did they prove the doubling theory? No.

The series 1,2,3 is also valid. So is 9,11,742.

The theory is simply any three numbers in ascending order. If you first tested a series opposed to your theory, it would only take one N to disprove it.

If the theory in the thread had been, "big boys most often do not display their registration sticker", you would try to find a marina where most do display them.

This theory (admittedly re-phrased) was "big boys often don't pay their registration fees". If that statement was confined to the OP's marina, one would test differently. But, as a broader stated theory, I believe it's been disproved, as many contrary examples have been provided. Acknowledging one has to trust the word of my slip neighbors, or that of the many others here, like you and I. I also hasn't proved the theory that they do often pay, just disapproved the theory proposed.

The concept of off shore registration is a better point. Although, our boarder countries don't see it that way. They do receive revenue from these foreign registrations and have decided to be more competitive. If we lowered them here, they would come back. No doubt. I think tax competition is good, otherwise, the unrestrained taxing power corrupts. Sort of how that whole revolutionary war thing happened.
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post #126 of 131 Old 07-16-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Just for fun, Out. As to the scientific method, it takes substantial N to statistically prove a theory. It only takes one conflicting N to disprove it outright.

My fav example......

Your task is to provide the theory that comports with this observed outcome of a series of number...... 2,4,8

To test your theory, you apply different series to see if they are valid.

Nearly everyone assumes the theory is a series of numbers that double themselves, so first tests are something like 5,10,20. That does comport.

Then they'll guess 3,6,12. Still confirms the correct theory as well.

They can test thousands more of these doubling series, as well, and they are all valid. Did they prove the doubling theory? No.

The series 1,2,3 is also valid. So is 9,11,742.

The theory is simply any three numbers in ascending order. If you first tested a series opposed to your theory, it would only take one N to disprove it.

If the theory in the thread had been, "big boys most often do not display their registration sticker", you would try to find a marina where most do display them.

This theory (admittedly re-phrased) was "big boys often don't pay their registration fees". If that statement was confined to the OP's marina, one would test differently. But, as a broader stated theory, I believe it's been disproved, as many contrary examples have been provided. Acknowledging one has to trust the word of my slip neighbors, or that of the many others here, like you and I. I also hasn't proved the theory that they do often pay, just disapproved the theory proposed.

The concept of off shore registration is a better point. Although, our boarder countries don't see it that way. They do receive revenue from these foreign registrations and have decided to be more competitive. If we lowered them here, they would come back. No doubt. I think tax competition is good, otherwise, the unrestrained taxing power corrupts. Sort of how that whole revolutionary war thing happened.
No problem with this disproving the theory on your local area. Problem was on your expression of your proving your own theory with the data you had collected. Regardless, I'm inclined to believe that the large majority of all sailors pay their required fees and taxes, and the few that don't are more likely to cheat on other aspects of life as well. There is good data for that one in many other arenas. Tom- that is an elegant solution that I've never seen. Definitely stretching the letter of the law (and probably flouting its intent), but nicely done nonetheless.
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

My understanding of the null hypothesis is a bit different.

Outliers are permitted given the statement is considered disproven when it reaches the 5% threshold of being not least likely than not. In short 95% certainty it is not true. In our imperfect world where type one and type two errors abound and given measuring runs the risk of changing the reality even in physics best that can be ever be offered in medicine, science and engineering is probabilities. Here a correlation coefficient or a Pearson R might have been more appropriate but let's leave that aside. Believe your amusing (thank you you made me smile) example does not serve as it is mathamatical not pragmatic.

Yes math is the underpinnings of all practical knowledge but other than in chaos theory it alone can ascribe to give absolute answers. For the rest of us probabilities must serve.

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Or, more succinctly, correlation does not prove causation.
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
....Believe your amusing (thank you you made me smile) example does not serve as it is mathamatical not pragmatic.....
Math is the foundation of all science, including probabilities. It's how we prove and disapprove everything.

For now, my only concern was crap wind most of the day. Actually took the dinghy on a 10nm run. Involved beers on a buddies boat. I'm easy.
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post #130 of 131 Old 07-17-2016
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Re: Big Boys not paying their fair share?

About the only thing this thread has proven in over 120 posts, is that class envy is quite strong, and people are concerned that somebody else is getting away with a better deal. Explains the current political environment rather concisely.


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