Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 61 Old 08-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

Is the swivel needed at all? Is the issue related to twist caused by putting tension on three-strand rode?

Also, why did you use double-braid for rode? I always thought that three-strand had more stretch, thus providing shock absorption.

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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Is the swivel needed at all?
It is my understanding that any swivel is THE weak link in the anchor tackle. I've taken mine out and have no intention of replacing it. By the way, other than 4 nights on the Grenada Yacht club dock a year ago, we've been anchored for more than 660 consecutive nights, so our anchor tackle is pretty important to us.

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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

Removed my swivel also

Having 90 feet of chain before the rope road gives me piece of mind when anchoring where there are rocks or even rebar/ trees sunken which could saw an all rope road . Besides the weight of chain helps to lower the cantenary angle and helps prevent anchor wrap in a current situation.

I'd replace the whole windlass ,. What brand type is it?


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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

Please dont use a trip line with a float unless anchoring in very foul bottom.
The float interferes with the swing room of other boats trying to anchor nearby.
A boat or dinghy passimg thru at night cant see it and can snag it, tripping your anchor.
You can drift over your anchor and snag the trip line in your prop or rudder.
The float interferes with the swing room of other boats trying to anchor nearby.

We cruise full time from Maine to the Bahamas and maybe, at most, 1% of boats use a trip line.

You could tie one end of a line to the anchor shank and tie the other end about 10' up the rode. When retrieving anchor, untie the end from the rode and wrap it around the drum to finish the retrieval. It will be quite muddy unless you anchor in sand. Do you have a washdown system?
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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

They make self adjusting anchor floats. Multiple advantages:
Marks where the anchor is. Big flag so helps prevents others from running over it. Also no slack to catch in props.
No way trip line can tangle in rode. No chafe.
Easy to use. Pull in rode until close. Pull up float with boat hook. Use that to get last bit up.
Also great if anchor gets fouled.
Made to survive for multiple seasons as designed for your use.
Short additional money especially c/w what you would pay buying components
Can retrieve anchor if you need to cut and run.

Still agree with others. I've been known to move if boat in front is rope and it's going to be a windy night. Same if I don't see snubbers on chain. People forget it's windage not displacement that is the concern for rode stresses except for the effects of the up and down from chop. Good rope rode needs to be strong. Loading and unloading, abrasions from small particles of dirt and shells wears it out. Always wonder about the strength of a rope rode on an old boat and if it was ever changed out. Seen them break. Not pretty. Usually no way to re anchor on the boat. Leave your keys in the engine at all times. Even when you are not on the boat please. Then there's a chance someone can save your boat if you are not around.

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post #16 of 61 Old 08-09-2016
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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xort View Post
Please dont use a trip line with a float unless anchoring in very foul bottom.
The float interferes with the swing room of other boats trying to anchor nearby.
A boat or dinghy passimg thru at night cant see it and can snag it, tripping your anchor.
You can drift over your anchor and snag the trip line in your prop or rudder.
The float interferes with the swing room of other boats trying to anchor nearby.

We cruise full time from Maine to the Bahamas and maybe, at most, 1% of boats use a trip line.

You could tie one end of a line to the anchor shank and tie the other end about 10' up the rode. When retrieving anchor, untie the end from the rode and wrap it around the drum to finish the retrieval. It will be quite muddy unless you anchor in sand. Do you have a washdown system?
Nope...

If the trip line is attached to the chain/nylon as I did in my illustration, then the trip line, and the float, remain below the surface until you raise the anchor. The key is to use a trip line that is only about 3' longer than the chain. I did this for over 5 years, and 100s of days at anchor without a problem.

The only time that I ever remember being concerned while anchoring with this setup was one day inside of the Point Judith breakwater, when some newb, after dragging his anchor three times, motored past me about 10 feet off my bow. He caught, and almost cut, my anchor line on his keel! I had about 6:1 scope out in about 12 feet of water. I saw my anchor line bounce as his keel motored over it... Thank God he didn't catch my rode with his prop... If he did, however, I could have easily found the anchor, as the trip line and float would have been easy for me to snag with the grappling anchor that I keep onboard for my dinghy.

This had nothing to do with the trip line, but had everything to do with his lack of seamanship. If you have to pass close to boats at anchor, you should pass close by their stern, NOT their bow.


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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

Trip line with float is just asking for trouble in the real world--don't do it! The answer is simple if you don't have a long length of chain there is no reason not to go with just six feet of chain. When you get as close to the anchor as you can, cleat off the line and motor forward a little bit to break the anchor free. Then pull it in. Despite all the yattering classes here on the Internet there is no need or reason for all chain or even long lengths of chain if anchoring in mud and sand bottoms where there is no coral. I have anchored this way perfectly peacefully up and down most of the East Coast when using my secondary anchor, which is a Fortress on a short length of chain (probably 10 feet) and the rest nylon. There is no gain with having say 15 feet or 30 feet of chain over just 6 feet if the bottom is not likely to chafe the rode. Get to the Caribbean or someplace with coral and things change a lot and long lengths of chain are mandatory unless you are very careful with how you anchor.
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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?



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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

By the way, for those that don't know I am pretty sure the OP is anchoring in the Chesapeake which has deep, deep mud in most places. Anchor chain will come aboard with huge gobs of the stinky stuff. Anchoring on mostly rope rode is perfectly safe and probably superior to all chain there, so shorten up on the chain leader, use the engine to break the anchor free. Works perfectly. I have done it hundreds of times on boats in the Chesapeake. Chances are you will be anchored in less than 10 feet of water most of the time so any type of float used would be very vulnerable to being fouled by someone, if you don't foul your own float when the wind goes against the current in some locations. If there is a float on something someone will foul it--guaranteed! I once helped someone unwind a Cuttyhunk mooring ball he had managed to back over and wind up, then the ball jammed in the rudder opening for the propellor!
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Re: Windlass technique: use messenger/snubber line with chain?

Keep it simple. When (not if) you have to quickly haul anchor at 0300 in a gale you don't want to be messing with extra lines/floats etc that WILL tangle on something. If you don't want to scratch your pretty windlass by wrapping the chain (more the better) around it then just pull that section by hand. On a 34' boat you won't have more than a 30 lb anchor so it shouldn't be a problem (keep a pair of rubberized gloves that fit well handy).

ps three strand nylon is excellent for anchor rode
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