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post #21 of 34 Old 08-24-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

Love the comments about how it won't work, and how to do it after I showed pictures of it done. This is why I love the internet.

Answer is you can fly between about 130 and 120 degrees AWA in light air (under 10 knots true) with it being only slightly better than a 155% genoa. Does that help?

Oh and others suggest a moveable tackline.. YEP... and if you can get the clew to ride up the forestay (as was suggested with the ATN tacker or beads) then by all means do so... the prior owner to my boat fixed that problem too by putting a hank on it near the clew (you can also see in this picture).. He must have really hated spin poles...
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post #22 of 34 Old 08-24-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHNOOL View Post
Love the comments about how it won't work, and how to do it after I showed pictures of it done. This is why I love the internet.

Answer is you can fly between about 130 and 120 degrees AWA in light air (under 10 knots true) with it being only slightly better than a 155% genoa. Does that help?

Oh and others suggest a moveable tackline.. YEP... and if you can get the clew to ride up the forestay (as was suggested with the ATN tacker or beads) then by all means do so... the prior owner to my boat fixed that problem too by putting a hank on it near the clew (you can also see in this picture).. He must have really hated spin poles...
LOL...ok, sure you can do it. I can bang nails in with the handle of a screwdriver but it's slow and painful and damages the screwdriver. You just said yourself that it's only marginally better than using a plain ol' genoa.

The OP said that he just wants to see the big sail fly and say "Whee!" Ok cool, I get that so have at it. However, if he decides to get more serious about it, I suggest that he either buy an asymm or buy the missing bits and bobs to fly a symm the way it was meant to be used.
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post #23 of 34 Old 08-24-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

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Originally Posted by Ajax_MD View Post
LOL...ok, sure you can do it. I can bang nails in with the handle of a screwdriver but it's slow and painful and damages the screwdriver. You just said yourself that it's only marginally better than using a plain ol' genoa.
Pretty silly this. Deep on the wind a symmetrical tacked to the stem is far more powerful than a genoa shadowed by the main.

Only cruisers tack spinnakers to the headstay. That seems pointless to me. Tacked to the stem the spinnaker can fly far to windward: powerful. The lee shoulder of the spinnaker will be flying beyond the main shadow as well. But it does look a little goofy. I would definitely do it if my predicament made it my best option...broken pole or torn asymmetric.

Works fine. And we saw pics above too!

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post #24 of 34 Old 08-24-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

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Originally Posted by SHNOOL View Post
you can fly between about 130 and 120 degrees AWA in light air (under 10 knots true) with it being only slightly better than a 155% genoa.
I have a 170 nylon genoa / drifter that I can use from close-hauled to a broad reach, so it sounds like mis-using my symmetric spinnaker won't get me anything I can't already do. Maybe this is what people mean when they say it won't work.

Nonetheless, this is my third year with the boat and I've never used the spinnaker. Even if it's less effective than my drifter I want to get it flying just for kicks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SHNOOL View Post
Oh and others suggest a moveable tackline.. YEP... and if you can get the clew to ride up the forestay (as was suggested with the ATN tacker or beads) then by all means do so... the prior owner to my boat fixed that problem too by putting a hank on it near the clew
Wow, that hank looks like it could be a hazard if you ever used that spinnaker in the regular way. Also it seems overly complicated. Wouldn't a shackle or carabiner through the tack and around the forestay accomplish the same thing, without permanently modifying the spinnaker?



So it sounds like my setup should be a small block set in front of my forestay, a line run from the cockpit through the block to the tack, a shackle or carabiner to slide the tack up and down the forestay, and long spinnaker sheets run outside the forestay.

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post #25 of 34 Old 08-24-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

Displacement boats don't generally benefit much from an asym... at least not without a sprit... its strictly a downwind sail, and yep your 170 light air killer will likely be better. This might sail you just a bit deeper but not enough to matter. Someone considering this would likely not even have a 155.

Yep the prior owner of that boat I had lost the spin pole... so it was never used the "right" way, so the hank wasn't a concern... Also the boat came with a furler and a 110 on that furler, so he was looking for something for light air and downwind.

I later added a pole to the boat, a better spin, and a decent laminated 155. Then I sold the boat, and bought something faster, that was already rigged for a symmetrical spin.
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post #26 of 34 Old 08-24-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

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Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
this is my third year with the boat and I've never used the spinnaker..
Unless I am racing I could never be assed. Run all those lines just so the wind can change? That's crew work!
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post #27 of 34 Old 08-25-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

Do yourself a favor and buy a spinnaker pole so you can use your spinnaker. A spinnaker allows you to keep sailing in the common circumstances of low wind pressure after the beam. I use mine regularly. You can leave you spin sheets run, ready to use, just hang off the stern rail.

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post #28 of 34 Old 08-25-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

The Catalina-22 has a J dimension of only 8 ft. Spinnaker poles are typically a 'scoch' larger than the J dimension. For a Cat-22 a ~9ft. aluminum spinn. pole of 1-1/2" dia. would be relatively insignificant in cost; most of the end connections/fittings are easily obtainable on the internet: mast ring connector (you really don't need a mast track for the spinn pole @ 8-9 ft. long, end fitting spring jaws, spinnaker sock, etc. etc. Hell, Sailrite.com has a kit for your your boats spinnaker for moderate $$ and you can reef the spinnaker with the 'sock' if needed.
For sail control, I recommend (all from the cockpit), a pole topping lift / downhaul, ... 'twing' lines that are terminated to plastic rings (the spinn sheets pass through the plastic rings) ... when the twings are pulled 'down' they act as a substitute for foreguys. Plus, I'd add deep grooved sheaves to the outboard side of base of the cap shrouds .... so sometimes instead of using the 'twings', simply place the windward spinn sheet under the windward roller mounted to the cap shroud, etc. etc.

All this is to keep the spinnaker STABLE under varying wind strengths and course angle .... the lower the wind speed, the lower the pole; and vice versa etc. If the symmetric is pinned to the stem or the forestay of the boat you're simply not going to have a STABLE spinnaker at other than very light wind speeds.
Consider to set up the boat properly to fly a symmetric spinnaker ... its not going to cost an arm and a leg for a boat with an 8 ft. "J" dimension; plus, you will have a STABLE spinnaker (not oscilating back and forth .... and driving you 'nuts'). Id suggest TWO LINE (spinn sheets) control with adjustable 'twings' to substitute for foreguys (used for 4 line control)..... and you'll find very quickly that you'll REALLY NEED to raise/lower that spinn pole to keep that spinnaker STABLE.

hope this helps.
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post #29 of 34 Old 08-26-2016
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

Minnesail - I have spinnaker pole from a Chrysler 22 that you can have. I don't know anything about it because I never used it and no longer have the Chrysler. The pole has a curve to it that I'm not sure if it's suppose to have or not and it has a bunch of rigging attached. I'm in Coon Rapids if you're interested.

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post #30 of 34 Old 08-26-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Spinnaker without a pole

Quote:
Originally Posted by threeagon View Post
Minnesail - I have spinnaker pole from a Chrysler 22 that you can have. I don't know anything about it because I never used it and no longer have the Chrysler. The pole has a curve to it that I'm not sure if it's suppose to have or not and it has a bunch of rigging attached. I'm in Coon Rapids if you're interested.
Really?! That'd be awesome! Are you around this weekend?

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