Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board? - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 167 Old 09-04-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Hmm. Okay. I love flying a chute. I guess that comes through. *grin*
I, generally, agree with your sentiment. I just think the language chosen had inherent judgment in it, that, intended or not, came through. But I guess I think language has importance, and choosing words carefully is worthwhile. I know most don't share this feeling with me.
To the OP, my point was I don't see Hunter hating. I see some getting their knickers twisted when what they bought (Hunter or otherwise) isn't immediately recognized as the best of all worlds by everyone.

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post #62 of 167 Old 09-04-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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Wow, its threads like this one that makes me want to plead for Smackdady’s return to Sailnet. Like or hate him, he at least, is not afraid to stand up for Hunter against all the sailing snobs out there.

Does anyone out there have a polar diagram for a B&R Hunter that they can post here? That would go a long way to explain the differences (virtues?) of the rig. Isn’t the B&R a ¾ fractional rig making for a (relatively) small “J” dimension? As most of the power is derived from the mainsail, wouldn’t spending money on a whisker pole or a kite be a diminishing return on a cruising budget? Rather than the usual beauty pageant arguments I’d be more interested in making this a more technical discussion. This last fall I was surprised to see the large number of Hunters down in Mexico. They have totally eclipsed Catalina (and to a lesser degree, Beneteau) as the “coin of the realm” down there during the last cruising season.
I don't have polars, but yes the idea with the BnR rig is you can swing a square top massively roachy main. The extra sail area in the main means you can get away with a much smaller jib and keep the HP up. Also since extra mainsail is easier to reef, and easier to trim than a big jib in makes the labor required lower. It also allows for smaller primary winches, lighter deck hardware, etc. Its basically a monohull adaption of a multihull rig.

The issue is that Hunter then went and put in mast roller furling mains on the BnR. This immediatly undercuts a good bit of the advantages for the rig. Main sail area gets cut by a third, and since you have a tiny fractional jib, the boat becomes grossly under powered.

Again it doesn't mean it's a bad boat, but the combination of BnR and a roller furling main is a really bad idea from a performance boat.

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post #63 of 167 Old 09-04-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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I, generally, agree with your sentiment. I just think the language chosen had inherent judgment in it, that, intended or not, came through. But I guess I think language has importance, and choosing words carefully is worthwhile.
I absolutely agree with you. Vocabulary, spelling, punctuation, and word choice are important. Language is all we have to communicate with (with which to communicate *grin*).

I'm open to feedback. I appreciate your approach at providing it.
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post #64 of 167 Old 09-04-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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The issue is that Hunter then went and put in mast roller furling mains on the BnR.
Let's be clear here; Hunter didn't "went and put in mast furling mains" on boats. The boats don't come standard with that, some owners went and did it!

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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post #65 of 167 Old 09-05-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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Let's be clear here; Hunter didn't "went and put in mast furling mains" on boats. The boats don't come standard with that, some owners went and did it!
I have no issue holding a builder responsible for even allowing their buyers to have that option. BnR rigs are fine, roller furling mains are fine, the two together are a disaster. When combined they force a boat to not point, and be underpowered.

The whole point of swept back spreaders instead of a backstay is to allow for a big roach. So you can get away with a small non-overlapping jib. The main provides the power and the jib keeps everything balanced. Get rid of the roach and you loose all the power in the rig. Sure you can try and fix it by switching to a a large headsail, but because the spreaders are so swept back the sheeting angle is awful.

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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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I have no issue holding a builder responsible for even allowing their buyers to have that optionl.
When I was going through the specification process for Auspicious there were a few things I asked for that the builder wouldn't do. I'd have to go through my notes to see what they were. You'll have to imagine a Swedish accent saying "I'm sorry we don't do that."

I did have one idea (old-fashioned slab reef on the staysail) they thought interesting. They put it on a couple of employee boats and tested before agreeing to sell it to me.

I'm not sure Hunter could get away with an attitude like that.

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post #67 of 167 Old 09-05-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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BnR rigs are fine, roller furling mains are fine, the two together are a disaster.
A "disaster", that's just ridiculous!

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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post #68 of 167 Old 09-05-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

The pole discussion is interesting so will pull my pants down and display the attitude of the cruisers I know.

I have a lovely light expandable CF pole. It's easy to deploy. Still it's rarely used. In the bay usually day sail with just the bride. Much easier to gybe without the pole and avoid DDW. Beside there's a lot of traffic and I have no destination in mind anyway. I'm happy with the boat at hull speed or near it on those days. Don't care about a course or point of sail. I do care about back winding a sail on a pole to avoid a catastrophe.

With company I'd rather be in the cockpit shooting the ****e. Yes I'll "sail the boat " but rather do it in earshot of the conversation.

But about a dozen times a year the pole goes out. When it does go out its out for a day or more. Then it's worth every d-mn penny. My VMG is better, chafe and wear on the sail is less and the passage shorter.

I've said before I'm a wimp. Don't need to race against every boat that comes close. Do want sails in trim but that's as far as I go. Want good trim because I think it's easier on the sails and boat. Think my view of things is fairly common among cruisers. Have a blast making fun of us but the pole will still only go out on long legs.

As regards the big main small jib. Recall a Marion Bermuda. We got whooped bad by a Nonsuch 36. All main and no jib. So see small or no jib boats can move along. My issue is concern for the AP or windvane. Understand how you can vary placement of the fin keel so the boat will balance at some points of sail. Don't understand how you can have the boat balance at all points of sail. Particularly downwind.
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post #69 of 167 Old 09-05-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

Coastal sailing .....poles are not used very often and as others have said it's fun to set the chute. Offshore poles are used a lot and I would not want to be without one. As to the popularity of swept spreaders, I believe in most cases it's about saving money, in the B&R rig not so much.
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post #70 of 167 Old 09-05-2016
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Re: Just curious - why so many Hunter haters here on this board?

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
The pole discussion is interesting so will pull my pants down and display the attitude of the cruisers I know.

I have a lovely light expandable CF pole. It's easy to deploy. Still it's rarely used. In the bay usually day sail with just the bride. Much easier to gybe without the pole and avoid DDW. Beside there's a lot of traffic and I have no destination in mind anyway. I'm happy with the boat at hull speed or near it on those days. Don't care about a course or point of sail. I do care about back winding a sail on a pole to avoid a catastrophe.

With company I'd rather be in the cockpit shooting the ****e. Yes I'll "sail the boat " but rather do it in earshot of the conversation.

But about a dozen times a year the pole goes out. When it does go out its out for a day or more. Then it's worth every d-mn penny. My VMG is better, chafe and wear on the sail is less and the passage shorter.

I've said before I'm a wimp. Don't need to race against every boat that comes close. Do want sails in trim but that's as far as I go. Want good trim because I think it's easier on the sails and boat. Think my view of things is fairly common among cruisers. Have a blast making fun of us but the pole will still only go out on long legs.

As regards the big main small jib. Recall a Marion Bermuda. We got whooped bad by a Nonsuch 36. All main and no jib. So see small or no jib boats can move along. My issue is concern for the AP or windvane. Understand how you can vary placement of the fin keel so the boat will balance at some points of sail. Don't understand how you can have the boat balance at all points of sail. Particularly downwind.
I would love to sail one of those for a while just to see how it feels to heel downwind. Without a spin anyway.
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