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post #61 of 68 Old 09-08-2016
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Re: 10 little ducks?

A lot of good points. I am an avid sailor and sea kayaker on northern Lake Superior. We play with all sorts of vessels; sailboats, powerboats, jet skis, tugs and 1000ft bulkers/tankers and even float planes in fairly confined waters at times. We don't need licences for human powered craft YET, but we're heading that way. Our local shops advise its customers on safe boating when they rent vessels. As far as I know, commercial guides do require a minimum amount of registered training to operate.

Admittedly, Superior is a different kind of waterway than in New York, but there's a couple "universal guidelines" we kayakers (and sailors to some degree) should all remember:

1. If they're bigger or faster than you, you'll lose
2. If they're bigger or faster than you, you'll lose
3. If you're more than a mile out (on this lake which is only a few degrees above freezing even in summer) and you get dunked, you'll probably die.
4. Because you draw 3.25", you have no business being in a shipping lane
5. Like on the land, before you cross the "road/shipping lane/pier opening" use your eyes and ears to look both ways.
6. If you're going to be in the same playground as the big kids, have a VHF and monitor channel 16. We hear Securites often, especially from the big guys.

Basically, you MUST to take responsibility for OWN safety.

I can understand how amateur kayakers can be a nuisance, even if they don't mean to be. Sometimes the weather changes unexpectedly and they get blown offshore or the sea kicks up a hell of a mess suddenly. Not exactly the kayaker's fault. However in this case the kayaking guide, a commercial operation should have known these basic rules as well as having full familiarity with the waters being visited, and should have had a handheld VHF as a minimum requirement of having a business/guiding license.

If there's a problem, maybe it's time for local boating authorities, rental places, clubs to start educating people.

Commercial operators and professional seamen should be following the COLREGs to the LETTER (watches, signalling, etc). I don't understand how they could allow themselves to become lazy about that.

Last edited by wymbly1971; 09-08-2016 at 12:59 PM.
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post #62 of 68 Old 09-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: 10 little ducks?

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Originally Posted by tempest View Post
Ok, nuance. If your motor is on and transmission is engaged, ( being propelled by machinery) you are a powerboat.]
You are absolutely correct here. If your engine (propelling machinery) is running but not engaged (in gear) you are still a sailing vessel propelled by sail. You could have your engine on to charge batteries, run a fridge or a watermaker, so it need not be for propelling the vessel at that time and you would use the rules for a vessel under sail. Drop it into gear, even at idle and you have instantly become a motor vessel and the rules change.
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post #63 of 68 Old 09-08-2016
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Re: 10 little ducks?

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You are absolutely correct here. If your engine (propelling machinery) is running but not engaged (in gear) you are still a sailing vessel propelled by sail. You could have your engine on to charge batteries, run a fridge or a watermaker, so it need not be for propelling the vessel at that time and you would use the rules for a vessel under sail. Drop it into gear, even at idle and you have instantly become a motor vessel and the rules change.
I'm in complete agreement.

But what should we do in a situation where:
1. I'm sailing closehauled on port tack with full sail.
2. I'm on a collision course with a sailboat that has just it's main up, on stbd tack
3. I notice water spitting out the back of the other boat in bursts... I.e. the engine is on.

Not that it would happen very often...
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Re: 10 little ducks?

I would hold my course but be prepared to change it in case the other boat does not give way. I would tell the crew to be ready to tack.

Of course, we all use our steaming day shapes, don't we? Confession time : I haven't got one.
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Re: 10 little ducks?

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Originally Posted by gptyk View Post
I'm in complete agreement.

But what should we do in a situation where:
1. I'm sailing closehauled on port tack with full sail.
2. I'm on a collision course with a sailboat that has just it's main up, on stbd tack
3. I notice water spitting out the back of the other boat in bursts... I.e. the engine is on.

Not that it would happen very often...
Happens all the time down here!
First question; is it a bare boat?
2nd question; could that boat possibly be making that course and speed with only the main up?
If I was (as I often am) fighting to make easting against the normally west setting current between islands, I would try to hold my course as long as practicable, hoping the vessel (if motorsailing) would give way. If he did not, I'd make my course change so as to lose as little easting as possible and still avoid a situation that would cause him to alter course.
But if I was out for a pleasant day sail, just enjoying the time spent out on the water, I'd probably just tack away, relax and put my feet back up on the coaming again and sail on.
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post #66 of 68 Old 09-08-2016
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Re: 10 little ducks?

If a sailboat shows exhaust water and is going faster than me, I'm convinced they are in gear.

Actually, I really don't think many are charging batteries alone, while coastal sailing, but it does happen.


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post #67 of 68 Old 09-08-2016
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Re: 10 little ducks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gptyk View Post
I'm in complete agreement.

But what should we do in a situation where:
1. I'm sailing closehauled on port tack with full sail.
2. I'm on a collision course with a sailboat that has just it's main up, on stbd tack
3. I notice water spitting out the back of the other boat in bursts... I.e. the engine is on.

Not that it would happen very often...
He is on stbd tack, you on port tack and he has a sail up. You are the give way vessel.

If you are unsure, you must make the assumption that a collision situation exists and take clear and immediate action to avoid collision.

Engines spit cooling water whether the drive is engaged or not, so the safest assumption you can make is that he is a sailing vessel, in which case, you still must give way...

Sorry lol
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post #68 of 68 Old 09-09-2016
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Re: 10 little ducks?

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Originally Posted by SeaDubya View Post
Isn't this actually true for any vessel, not just kayaks? Technically I could buy a cruise ship, register it as a recreational vessel, and drive it wherever I wanted as long as I didn't carry passengers. In most states in the US the requirements to operate a boat are quite low and in a lot of cases, non-existent.

Though I would need to have 47X as many kids to take care of the maintenance...so there is that keeping me from buying a cruise ship...
Had the same question before!
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