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post #1 of 11 Old 07-19-2017 Thread Starter
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Moorings and Dinghies

I've noticed (who hasn't) that there are way way more boats moored than there are dinghies at docks or floats for sailors to get to their moored boats.

Newport has a pay as you go launch service which is about $3 trip. They don't have much space for all the moored boats to have a dink at a dock waiting for them. The transient dinghy docks are packed like sardines 3 deep!

Northport has 3 launch services...2 for yacht clubs and their members... and one for Seymours who have probably 40-50% of the moorings in the harbor. You can rent their mooring and for something like $1,400 per season use the launch service from their gas dock (no parking there). They do no pay as you go fares. Obviously they have regular hours.

Anyone can drop a mooring in Northport Harbor.

The Town of Northport offers a dock for dinghies... to residents of the town of Northport and Huntington. There are about 25 tie ups. The total number of boats moored seasonally in the harbor including the two yacht clubs is probably in the neighborhood of 800.

There is a tiny float for transient dinghy tie up... which can handle 4-6 dinks max.

Seymours has 20 or 30 rental transient rental moorings.. They come with launch
service.

As we know there are many boaters who don't live in a town bordering the water and therefore don't get the privilege to rent a town dinghy tie up.

The town tie ups are not fully occupied... less than 50%. Why? Residents get a permit and do not put a dink in... because apparently the permits are very very hard to get and there may be a long waiting list to get a tie up stop.

Should these towns.... like Northport make their tie ups available on a lottery system.. that is all applicants no matter where they live have an equal chance of getting one?

Should these towns demand that the tie ups have a boat or if not the tie up is made available to someone else?

She residents get a better rate if they do a lottery than non residents?

How many slots should they provide? Or should these towns simply have a town launch (sub contract like Oldport works) for pay as you go (like Newport).

Towns have sucked up all the close in spaces for moorings.... GIVING them to marinas, Yacht Clubs and "mooring operations". Anchoring is available a mile from the town and with no launch service either.

Are there too many boats out there? Seems like most aren't even used!

What say you?
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post #2 of 11 Old 07-19-2017
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

I think the problem relates not only to the increasing number of vessels but the increasing size of vessels as well.

A few weeks ago, I was proceeding to a notoriously busy lock station shortly before sunset. About a quarter of a mile from the lock station a great big power boat (50 ish feet) blew past me in the narrow channel to beat me to any available mooring spots. I swear the wake of the powerboat, about 15 feet off was as high as my coach house. A couple minutes later I passed him, as he was standing off looking for a place to tie up.

I observed a butt end of a canoe/kayak tie up dock that was vacant. I slipped past the power boat and tied up my stern to the butt end. I occupied about 4 feet of dock, my bow rested on the shore. I wanted a tie up as I have no head on board and had both my mom and a Toddler on board. The outer end of the 8 footish dock was occupied by the front 1/3rd of a stink pot. I looked around, the sun was setting, I hadn't passed any canoes or kayaks in the previous hours and decided I would not be taking the dock from it's intended users.

When I tied up the woman on the stink pot, moored to the long face of the canoe and kayak dock started yelling at my mom and wife, saying we had taken the dinghy dock (which was clearly labeled canoe and kayak).

I stepped in and explained this was not a dinghy dock, but a canoe and kayak dock, and pointed out that we were more or less a sailing canoe. She said her friends on one of the stink pots standing off would need to anchor and needed a dinghy dock. I pointed out, that it was in fact her boat that occupied the face of the canoe and kayak dock, not mine and I pointed out that the other butt end of the tie up wall was available and that any dinghies could raft off me. She continued to lip and I assured her, that when lock staff arrived the next morning at 9, if they required me to move at that time- I would. Parks staff asking me to move was not likely , as all 500 feet of transient tie up space, including all canoe and kayak docks was occupied by over sized stink pots, and my boat was one of the only ones present with a seasonal mooring pass.
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post #3 of 11 Old 07-20-2017
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

I throw the numbers off in my area, by driving to the shore with my dinghy on top of the car, dump it in the water, and row out to my boat. All very stealthy.
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post #4 of 11 Old 07-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

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Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
I throw the numbers off in my area, by driving to the shore with my dinghy on top of the car, dump it in the water, and row out to my boat. All very stealthy.
Not possible for many.... they have no place for the dink at home... moving a heavy OB or a RIB would mean a trailer and then a ramp to launch the boat.... again not a practical solution.

With inadequate dinghy dock space the towns block non residents and then force whomever is moored to use a commercial service. For those who very infrequently use their boat or the launch service charging an annual or season fee for launch which seems prohibitively expensive at $1,400 / season... or $225 /week more or less. They have a total of 600 moorings!

+++++

Why is the "legal" justification for a commercial interest to set 600 moorings in a harbor which presumably belongs to the people who are supposed to have access to the water / harbor? Sure you need some sort of laws or chaos would ensue. And I am not saying that providing and installing hundreds of moorings is not an expense... but something seems wrong here. Same thing in most of the harbors I visit... Some commerciaal interest parks hundreds of moorings in the harbor and turns it into a business which is almost completely unregulated.
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post #5 of 11 Old 07-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

Here is the Northport Regulation for dinghy tie ups which clearly gives preference to Huntington (which is Northport is a part of) preference.

B.
Any unissued permits for tie-up float space or dinghy rack space shall be made available on a random selection basis, first to residents of the Town of Huntington and thereafter to nonresidents of the Town of Huntington. The Village Clerk shall publish, during the week following March 7 of each year, notice of availability. On a date selected by the Village Clerk, within one week of the date of public notice, the Village Clerk will accept applications for said vacant space. The Village Clerk shall segregate applications from Town of Huntington residents from those of nonresidents. If the number of applications from Town of Huntington residents equals the number of available spaces, permits will be thereupon issued to the applicants by the Village Clerk. If the number of applications from Town of Huntington residents exceeds the number of available spaces, permits will be issued based upon a random selection process to be employed by the Village Clerk. If the number of applications from Town of Huntington residents is less than the number of available spaces, permits shall first be issued to all Town of Huntington applicants. The remaining available spaces shall thereupon be issued, on a random selection process to be employed by the Village Clerk, to nonresidents of the Town of Huntington.

What is the legal justification for giving any particular town's residents priority to water access on what are public lands/waterways?
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post #6 of 11 Old 07-20-2017
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

As far as I know the state legislature has granted the towns authority to enact harbor management plans. 19NYCRR600 is the law. The feds granted the states this authority in 1972 under The Coastal Zone Management Act. This law also funds grants to waterfront revitalization, and I personally worked on a grant for a million dollar bulkhead replacement for my town at our riverfront park, which we did get.

https://www.dos.ny.gov/opd/programs/...rt_600-603.pdf
601.5 Submission, approval and effect of local laws or ordinances.
(a) Local laws or ordinances adopted to implement harbor management plans shall be submitted to the
secretary with the completed LWRP.
(b) Such local laws or ordinances shall be approved and become effective as provided in section 922 of the
Executive Law and Part 603 of this Title.
601.6 Approved programs.
A LWRP approved by the secretary shall be eligible for the benefits provided in article 42 of the Executive
Law.
601.7 Review of approved programs.
(a) The secretary shall periodically review the administration and implementation of every approved LWRP
to assure, among other things, that the local government itself acts consistent with the goals of its
approved LWRP.
(b) The secretary shall, after written notice to the legislative body of the participating local government,
revoke approval if at any time he/she finds that the policies and goals of the approved LWRP are not being
carried out in accordance with the terms of such LWRP.
601.8 Withdrawal.
A local government may withdraw its approved LWRP at any time as provided in the Executive Law.
Withdrawal of an approved LWRP will effect an immediate termination of all benefits accruing under the
Executive Law, including but not limited to any funding or other technical assistance and the effect of any local
Chapter XIII Waterfront Revitalization of Coastal Areas and Inland Waterways Page 27
law or ordinance or portions thereof which required approval of and were approved by the secretary pursuant to
section 922 of the Executive Law and Part 603 of this Title.

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post #7 of 11 Old 07-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

Here is the money quote as far as I am concerned from the state document

Public access policies.
(1) Protect, maintain and increase the levels and types of access to public water-related recreation resources and facilities so that these resources and facilities may be fully utilized by all the public in accordance with reasonably anticipated public recreation needs and the protection of historic and natural resources. In providing such access, priority shall be given to public beaches, boating facilities,
fishing areas and waterfront parks.
(2) Access to the publicly owned foreshore and to lands immediately adjacent to the foreshore or the water's edge that are publicly owned shall be provided, and it should be provided in a manner compatible with adjoining uses. Such lands shall be retained in public ownership.

How about this one.... harbor master (young fella on the dock who called himself that) pointed to one float and ramp near where the fishing guys park and "work from" which he said was "private".... not in the jurisdiction of Northport Village. How does some private interest get to install a float and ramp on the "public land... waterfront"???? Presumably they can post a "KEEP OFF" sign.

What would prevent someone from tying their boat to the bulkhead or the town pier.... other than some village rule which is in their harbor management plan prohibiting this????
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

The marina where I currently moor my boat (on a mooring) has a dinghy dock. Most of the dinghies that are kept there are tied and locked to the dinghy dock, both at the bow and the stern, thus blocking many others from tying up, or otherwise using the dinghy dock.

Inconsiderate people are everywhere and they drive me nuts...
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
The marina where I currently moor my boat (on a mooring) has a dinghy dock. Most of the dinghies that are kept there are tied and locked to the dinghy dock, both at the bow and the stern, thus blocking many others from tying up, or otherwise using the dinghy dock.

Inconsiderate people are everywhere and they drive me nuts...
I rent a seasonal mooring from a mooring company... he has no dinghy dock. He puts hundreds of moorings in for the yacht clubs... they have members only dinghy docks.

I have no idea how all the small boat owners get to their moored boats... other than a friend.. launching a dink or paying the seasonal rate to Seymours and taking it from their place.

This situation is not only at Northport.... it is the same in MOST LI harbors.... some are much worse than others. Often the marinas put in moorings and have a dinghy dock... like Sag Harbor... but they don't operate a launch.

Last edited by SanderO; 07-20-2017 at 04:53 PM.
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post #10 of 11 Old 07-20-2017
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Re: Moorings and Dinghies

The marina that I used to keep my boat had no moorings, but the town did. Moorings there were controlled by the harbormaster (who was very shady). That marina would allow you to keep a dinghy on their dinghy dock for $500 for the season.


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