US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!! - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 104 Old 09-22-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

Hush-
After the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the USS Peublo, I would suggest that anyone who blindly accepts any military or naval report as absolutely true, should be banned from voting for the rest of their life, and put on probationary citizenship status.

The folks wearing dolphins, or studying up to gain them, are supposed to be a cut above "just" sailors. So your experience may disqualify you.(G)

From a gentlemen who used to command a destroyer, I was told that one night (probably 45+ years ago by now, nothing new here) they were convoying under radio silence in a severe storm. And the ship on his starboard quarter was closing on him, not keeping their distance in convoy.

So they tried the Aldis lamp, repeatedly, and the vessel kept closing. Then he called down to a gun crew and had them lay a 5 inch star shell flare across the vessel's bridge.

No problem...they fell back into position and responded to all signals without any further delay.

But it took a star shell across the bridge before anyone on watch actually responded. During storm conditions and radio silence, on convoy duty.

Nothing new here, sad to say.
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post #62 of 104 Old 09-22-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

Here is the AIS info for the second incident, for those who didn't follow the last thread on this topic.

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post #63 of 104 Old 09-22-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

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Originally Posted by Deina View Post
Yet you keep trying to put the blame entirely on the merchantmen.

No reason we can't expect the Navy to do the same. They have the greater visibility of the situation.
Once again, I've said that the blame is always shared in a collision. I did not put the blame entirely on the merchantmen, nor do assume the blame is entirely on the Navy.

I do agree that the Navy ships would--or should--have had a better situational awareness. What we don't know is how that factored into the circumstances of the collisions. Monday morning quarterbacking doesn't work here, when there ought to be a lot of recorded data on the Navy ships to feed an investigation.
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post #64 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
Instead of a go fund me page, patreon or outright begging maybe we should just become arms dealers? Seems like a lot more money in this industry. Forget drug dealing, human trafficking or an honest job. Bombs and bullets. 100 buck toilet seats, AI coffee makers and kid proof hammers. The possibilities are endless.
We humans have strangely mixed up priorities. We happily spend a LOT more on researching how to kill other humans more efficiently than we spend on trying to help one another.
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post #65 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

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We humans have strangely mixed up priorities. We happily spend a LOT more on researching how to kill other humans more efficiently than we spend on trying to help one another.
Yep, couldn't agree with you more.
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post #66 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

Didn't think about the harbors...but that could work too.....just like my previous tongue and cheek solution.
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post #67 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

I find it interesting how if a boat runs into a merchant ship in shipping lanes its rarely considered the merchants ship fault yet that same boat running into navy ships is all of a sudden the navys fault. Some naval ships are quite larger than any merchant ship. All of them are larger than the average boat. The Naval sailors are ALL trained and perhaps more than the casual boater seeing how they go through At Least boot camp (6 weeks of training and this is not some regular school hours but all day every day) which is not the same as other military service because they train you on being primarily at sea. But you also go through specific training at your field. Those standing watch do not get to stand watch unless they have passed this training. If they are first timers someone stands watch with them until they've "learned the ropes".

Usually the coast guard will broadcast on vhf 16 for all ships to keep a certain distance from areas/navy ships in the area for a specified time while Naval ships pass through. This is for THEIR safety but as we all know not everyone monitors 16 as they should and some people might let their curiousity get the best of them.

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post #68 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

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I find it interesting how if a boat runs into a merchant ship in shipping lanes its rarely considered the merchants ship fault yet that same boat running into navy ships is all of a sudden the navys fault.....
That's an interesting point. Despite the specifics of the ColRegs, many feel the obligation to give way to a merchant ship. Perhaps that's out of respect or to avoid the danger.

I would be fine with a ColReg ammendment that requires everyone to maintain separation from all military ships, sufficient to allow them to maneuver at will. All countries. Period.
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post #69 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Re: US Navy murder to stop! All US Navy ships must NOW USE AIS!!

Naval vessels already have a fairly good tool under the ColRegs, of course they have to be using that tool, and make others aware that they are using that tool.

Restricted in her ability to maneuver includes, but is not limited to:

(v)*a vessel engaged in mineclearance operations,
(iv)*a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft,
(iii)*a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway,
(ii)*a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations,
(i)*a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline,

Of course, vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver have certain obligations they must meet as well.
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post #70 of 104 Old 09-23-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neeqness View Post
I find it interesting how if a boat runs into a merchant ship in shipping lanes its rarely considered the merchants ship fault yet that same boat running into navy ships is all of a sudden the navys fault. Some naval ships are quite larger than any merchant ship. All of them are larger than the average boat.
I believe that, in the two recent cases, the feighters were larger than the naval ships involved.

In one interview with a naval expert,, his assessment of the situation was:

"Carl Schuster, a former director of operations at the US Pacific Command's Joint Intelligence Center, said the oil tanker would have been at least three times bigger than the USS John S. McCain.

"Oil tankers are huge, and it takes miles for them to change course," he said.

Francona said no matter what the tanker did, the faster, nimbler US destroyer should have been able to avoid a collision.

"How does a state-of-the-art Navy destroyer -- equipped with multiple radar systems and communications gear with a full bridge watch -- not see, detect and evade a 30,000-ton slow-moving (10 knots) behemoth?" Francona asked."
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