Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

You do what the Norsemen did:
Name the green place "Iceland" and the icy place "Greenland" and you'll discourage all the nasty tourists.
Basic law of physics that the mere act of observing something changes it. And that's also why island paradises may allow for tourist dollars, but also don't let you overstay your welcome. If they choose to allow too much tourism...that's their choice.
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post #12 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

There used to be a lovely little harbour on Lake Ontario. Bronte Harbour had funky little shops, restaurants, ice cream parlours, lovely park etc. and was busy every weekend as people came to enjoy the ice cream, the park and the guy that set up a massive speaker system on which he played accordion on the sidewalk.

It got so popular that they tore down the funky neighborhood and built massive condos for all the people who loved the place.

It is now a barren concrete canyon with high priced condos and few people walking the streets.

I guess it's inevitable

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post #13 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

It depends on whose definition of paradise doesn’t it?

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post #14 of 182 Old 01-27-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
To my understanding, and with only the article and some history to use as my guide, I’d say we’re talking about somewhat different things here. The law Barbuda’s government changed to seemingly hand over public space to private interests (De Niro) is somewhat different than the issue of the impact we make as tourists. Overlapping, yes; but different, and more insidious I would say.

This transfer of public goods into private goods has been going on since the evolution of capitalism and the creation of the right of private property. Look up England Land Enclosure for a quick history lesson. Of course, this is happening all the time, in all parts of the world. And not just land — other things that were traditionally public goods, from water and timber, to minerals and even air, are constantly under pressure of being “privatized.”

I’m not saying privatization is always bad, nor that public resources are always good. Reality is usually far greyer and more nuanced.

But as for the impact WE have as cruisers, travellers and tourists, I’d say our footprints are more easily measured and managed. As Alex wrote, the old camping mantra of “leave no trace,” is the ideal. Not crapping up a place with garbage, etc. is easy and a no-brainer. Not over-exploiting a local resource for our fun and recreation should also be a no-brainer. But having no impact due to our typical disparate level of wealth and power, now that’s a different challenge.

Cruisers are richer than most global citizens. It’s good to spread this wealth wherever we go. But this also has an impact on local economies and peoples — for good, and for ill. It’s complicated… I think the best we can do is try and listen and learn from the locals, and to be aware of our impacts as best we can.

The more I get out there, the more I think amwbox is correct: I like going to where there are no wifi or cell signals. It’s here you can find places “unspoiled by commercialization” b/c few people choose to go here.
I think there is some cruising group has a motto about leaving a clean wake... which I take to mean don't leave a mess behind you.
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post #15 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
....I don't want this thread to be about politics... but how do we sail to, visit, learn, enjoy and of course RESPECT the paradises we yearn to visit? The so called development that De Niro appears to be associated with looks to me like an imposition of a different paradigm on the ancient cultures. We are essentially destroying what attracted us... or at least the culture which inhabit these regions and call them home.......
Two thoughts, but I can't see how your premise is anything but politics. In fact, the governance of a country is the definition of politics.

Anyway, I recall when the Four Seasons opened on the out island, Exuma, in the Bahamas. We had been island hopping for a couple of weeks and thought we at least wanted to check it out. It was awful. While we had been spending our time walking on beaches with zero footprints and wandering in to local places to eat, the look of the modern resort was out of place and gross. It was obvious they had bulldozed every single palm tree, built the resort and then planted trees where they wanted them. It was so fake. It failed. However, I think it failed because the average Four Seasons client couldn't get to Exuma easily enough. First class easily. I also think they had a hard time getting staff. Too remote.

On the other hand, there can't be any indigenous people on Barbuda. The indigenous people died from disease and worse, the new folks decided how they wanted it to be, got wiped out by Mother Nature and the next folks to arrive may just decide how they want it to be. Seems downright organic natural. Just like a rabbit taking over another rabbits hole, after it was eaten by a bear. Nature is cruel, but we can't freeze time.

So, I would find a luxury hotel in these islands to be gross, but others won't. I don't have a problem with a new order, after the old one totally fails. The context of fail, in this case, is the entire country is evacuated.

While I'm big on "leave no trace" hiking, no species can be a true leave no trace policy. Your house is a trace on some ancient hiking land. It's simply to plan where we should leave to trace, and trace the rest. The argument is always over who gets to pick.
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post #16 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

I think it is impossible to have the interface of modern and primitive without an impact of some sort. It is a natural human tendency to want to bring the best of both worlds, so to speak. The prime example is the southwestern United States. People moved to the arid regions to benefit their health when they had allergies and other humidity related conditions but then they started planting trees, grasses, and shrubbery and building irrigation systems to water all of it so now the pollens and other irritants are also in the "healthy" areas. Just a quick perusal of this site makes one wonder if any of the cruisers here could survive in truly primitive conditions given the discussions about wifi, cell service, solar panels, refrigeration, and air conditioning. The folks still living in truly primitive conditions will usually embrace anything that makes their existence easier but the high and mighty learned folks wish to keep them barefoot and pregnant so to speak in order to be entertained. A gas stove beats a dung fire for cooking any day.....
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
.... in this case, is the entire country is evacuated.....
Barbuda is a tad more than 1/3 of the country.
Those people are now on Antigua, the larger and more developed island...or elsewhere.

No one indigenous.
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post #18 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Ancient cultures?

We are talking about Barbuda here.

The island is uninhabited since the last hurricane.

The resort is already there and has been an eyesore ruin for decades.

You wish to leave black people impoverished because they are.... Black?

Denero and Jamie packer offered to rebuild EVERY HOME on the island for free.

They just want freehold for their own investment.

There's 2 sides to every story [emoji5][emoji846][emoji5]
yes but there are way more sides to the issues on Barbuda and giving a corporate entity a freehold right now with those incentives goes pretty deep into the netherland of "free" labor. The Barbudans need restoration first then decisions as serious as the K Club/DeNiro venture. Development on any serious scale would generate a nearly one source proprietor/worker stratification that really needs to be avoided by careful planning and maybe just a bit of genius. The options presented by deeded property rites by themselve threaten to eface the Barbudan culture in a blur of property consolidations boom and bust development etcetcetc...I pray for them honestly I hope they formalize a Commons and various similar community entity to secure the public welfare and the community's authority to guide its own future!

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post #19 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

The oceans are littered with mylar balloons and plastic shopping bags. Nobody really give a flying fcku.

Human beings are a parasites that are killing it's host. When the oil dries up we have destroyed half the planet with the inevitable nuclear melt downs, we will cut down all the trees to supply solar energy until we overpopulate to the point that the flu virus begins to mutate 20x faster than we can create vaccines.

Then we go away and the earth heals herself.

But of course a couple of stragglers will pop up out of caves and start the whole painful process all over again.

Have a happy day.

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post #20 of 182 Old 01-27-2018
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Re: Invasion enjoying or exploiting pradise?

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Originally Posted by RobGallagher View Post
The oceans are littered with mylar balloons and plastic shopping bags. Nobody really give a flying fcku.

Human beings are a parasites that are killing it's host. When the oil dries up we have destroyed half the planet with the inevitable nuclear melt downs, we will cut down all the trees to supply solar energy until we overpopulate to the point that the flu virus begins to mutate 20x faster than we can create vaccines.

Then we go away and the earth heals herself.

But of course a couple of stragglers will pop up out of caves and start the whole painful process all over again.

Have a happy day.
Have you seen my wife ?
I have a happy day every day
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The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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