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post #121 of 312 Old 02-08-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Have a decent relationship with my yard manager in RI and with the folks in Nanny Key. Also friends shared some of their costs running their boats including summer costs in Grenada/Trinidad So have a sense of costs in New England and Caribbean. Annual budget will run ~ 1 1/2 to 2X current budget. Iím not going around the world. If so would sell the house have Chris White build me a boat and be gone from SN. Iím doing a more limited program of chasing the sun and hopefully a trip across the pond at some point. Still passages are involved.
Just like with monos there are multis designed with passage making in mind and those designed with coastal/charter in mind. We can re-enter the endless argument about this or accept agreement to to disagree. The second category is in reach for me. The first is not without selling off assets. I donít think Iím alone in this. I fully agree the multi segment of the market is hot and will continue to grow. I disagree that the mono segment will wither and die.
My current obstacles are 15-20 year wait for a mooring within hundreds of miles of me. Not purchase expense but annual budget. Boat handling in close quarters without help. I have no interest in the typical Caribbean charter boat for a variety of reasons but mostly due to what I view as inadequacies of construction. Smack please stop showing pics of these unless to further a substantive point.
Out, I found your post above a fairly interesting, though not entirely accurate, read. And I wasn't particularly compelled to respond to it, until the last sentence.

I'm showing pics of catamarans that Mark and I are discussing. I'll continue to do so. If the pics are for some reason upsetting to you, just turn away. It's easy.
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post #122 of 312 Old 02-08-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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......Any sense how Hylas is doing?
Not sure financially, but I understand the split with Hylas USA (I may have the exact name wrong, they were just the past exclusive US marketing arm) was/is ugly.

A couple of the Hylas hull designs were jointly developed between Hylas and the US marketing group and there was some sort of royalty agreement with Hylas USA. There are court battles over it, Hylas (Queen Long) terminated the relationship and is either marketing direct or has a new relationship. Not exactly sure. In any event, it's very messy.

Their flagship 70 is one of the designs in dispute and makes me wonder if they can agree to make another or if the courts would jam it up.

I am told by a broker I know that the Hylas 5X models are selling strong. The 63 is a dud.


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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Whether cats are better to cruise on or not... the fact remains that the marine "infrastructure" in New England (and maybe the rest of the USA) is geared toward monohulls with narrow beams.
Either that will change over time or these businesses too will fail. The market forces are obvious - hence this thread.
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post #124 of 312 Old 02-08-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Is this the LeRouge?
Oh Lord, no. That is an example of an aesthetic abomination to my tastes.

This is a LeRouge:

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Last edited by colemj; 02-08-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Oh Lord, no. That is an example of an aesthetic abomination to my tastes.

This is a LeRouge:

Mark
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! See, there is no accounting for taste!

As an ex-architect, I alway preferred Saarinen over Le Corbusier - which made me a bit of an outcast.

Of course, even LeCor threw down a Notre Dame du Haut every once in a while after slamming a few bottles of wine.



So none of us are above digging the curves.
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post #126 of 312 Old 02-08-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Either that will change over time or these businesses too will fail. The market forces are obvious - hence this thread.
Not so sure about that. Their is a finite amount of waterfront available. Around me it's pretty much full and I don't believe Ontario is alone in that respect. Not only is the waterfront full, but the population continues to increase, meaning less space for each person- population density.

The only way to accommodate twice the beam is to have half the number of sailors paying twice as much. On a whole I see that this could result in more smaller boats rather than fewer bigger boats being at least as likely an outcome.

I agree that ultimately the market will determine the outcome, but I don't necessarily agree that the waterfront that is currently available is going to become available to half as many wealthy oligarchs. Maybe that will happen, but I don't see evidence that we are heading that way in highly populated developed countries.

This isn't Sea Ray or Hobie that is having difficulties, this is Oyster; big luxury boats catering to a small affluent market.

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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Not so sure about that. Their is a finite amount of waterfront available. Around me it's pretty much full and I don't believe Ontario is alone in that respect. Not only is the waterfront full, but the population continues to increase, meaning less space for each person- population density.

The only way to accommodate twice the beam is to have half the number of sailors paying twice as much. On a whole I see that this could result in more smaller boats rather than fewer bigger boats being at least as likely an outcome.

I agree that ultimately the market will determine the outcome, but I don't necessarily agree that the waterfront that is currently available is going to become available to half as many wealthy oligarchs. Maybe that will happen, but I don't see evidence that we are heading that way in highly populated developed countries.

This isn't Sea Ray or Hobie that is having difficulties, this is Oyster; big luxury boats catering to a small affluent market.
I don't know about that. I can easily see marinas halving the number of berths and tripling or quadrupling the price and being sold out. Small boaters be damned. In fact, there are many areas where just this has happened.

Probably not in Ontario, though.

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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

I appreciate curves, but prefer them in a Schionning or similar. Like I said, I'm coming around to the more hard styling - particularly because it is functional. It begins to look sillier on smaller boats like a Lagoon 39, but stretched out like a HH66 and it is mouth-watering. On the other hand, it is easy to make a large boat look good. I think the Nautitech Open 40 that you posted struck a good balance, but the Bali 4.5 is awful. The new Leopards missed the mark widely, IMO. The Helia is a bit of a compromise with styling between older and newer, but I think they pulled it off OK. There are a few things about that boat that I don't like, but my limited experience with them is that it is a good overall boat.

But I'm not an architect, or even an architectural enthusiast. I have zero artistic abilities, and no confidence in my opinion in these matters.

Mark
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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I don't know about that. I can easily see marinas halving the number of berths and tripling or quadrupling the price and being sold out. Small boaters be damned. In fact, there are many areas where just this has happened.

Probably not in Ontario, though.

Mark
Fair enough. You are right, there could be a difference in perception in Canada because freedom of navigation is enshrined in Federal Law. Water or the land underneath it can't be owned, so any citizen could fight it if access to the water is restricted to a select few, but I acknowledge that isn't the case everywhere.

If anything in recent years federal protection for freedom of navigation in Canada has increased, not decreased.
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Fair enough. You are right, there could be a difference in perception in Canada because freedom of navigation is enshrined in Federal Law. Water or the land underneath it can't be owned, so any citizen could fight it if access to the water is restricted to a select few, but I acknowledge that isn't the case everywhere.

If anything in recent years federal protection for freedom of navigation in Canada has increased, not decreased.
That wasn't why I thought it wouldn't happen in Ontario. It was more that I don't believe Ontario will ever become a popular place for these types of boats. It just isn't their environment and the logistics are difficult for them - nothing negative at all about Ontario.

But the Florida small boat marina is becoming rare as hen's teeth, and the same is happening in other places. Pretty much wiped out in the Eastern Caribe, and I suspect the Med.

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