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post #51 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

Necker Belle is quite a sage. Cost Branson over $6mm when he bought her used about 7 or 8 years ago. Then he had her totally refit, which took two years. That kind of refit had to be millions more. Now heís asking $3mm.

I saw her the year she became available as a charter. Stunning. Although, she depreciated more than $500k per year. Even at the immense fees for a charter (which are not all profit) it seem unlikely it broke even.


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post #52 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

The lower Great Lakes and St Lawrence have virtually no cruising cats. Moorage and winter storage is by the square foot and not cheap.
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

There are very few marinas in our neck of the woods that can accommodate a catamaran.

I know I won’t be moving to one. I’m having a hard time thinking the younger generation can afford the increased acquisition and maintenance costs. There are always exceptions to the rule, but if cats go mainstream, I’m going to stop worrying about younger gen wages and jobs.

I do know several retired, or soon to be retired, sailors that are opting for the cat. One slip neighbor just ordered a brand spanking new Leopard 44. Think it isn’t due until 2019. When I get to that point, I might just get a Trawler, like you’re supposed to.

On the upside, I have to think used Oyster values just took a hit, if one is shopping. Me, I’m still in Hylas’ corner.
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post #54 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

Here in SoCal they are not common either. You will see a couple in each marina, tied up to the end of the docks. Half of them are the Dragonfly or Corsairs though - the "cruising cats" are few and far between.
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post #55 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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I can pretty well gaurantee cats wouldn't be as popular as they are if they were sinking left right and centre, but they are not, which is partially due to damage control features inherent to their design.
I can't take this comment seriously because it implies that cats are flipping or doing otherwise serious mishaps constantly, and water tight bulkheads or redundant engines are the only thing keeping them from being lost altogether. And that this is a reason for their popularity - you might flip 3 or 4 times a year, but at least you won't sink: where do I sign the contract?

FWIW, many of the popular catamarans will sink if holed sufficiently because they displace more than they have structural buoyancy, and many of those water tight bulkheads are no longer that way after installing equipment. Some never were really water tight. Even the ones that do float will generally only do so to a survival level - you won't be sailing it into port for repairs.

Yet people are still buying these models in droves - several year waiting lists for some.

Again, if these features are considered so important to purchasing a boat, why would anyone buy a monohull at all? Obviously these features aren't important to them, or they would only buy a catamaran.

Trust me, it is not why catamarans are selling hand over fist and why many mono builders are now trying to start up catamaran lines. There is a deeper, darker secret for this popularity than that...

Mark
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

When we brought our boat home to Mystic CT in 2003, we were the only catamaran I knew of, or seen, in the entire area from Nantucket to New York. Over the 5 years we kept it there, we would increasingly see a catamaran about every time we went somewhere on a weekend, and I knew of 5 of them within the local area when we left.

However, catamarans are not good New England boats. They are difficult to heat, difficult to winterize well because covering them is a nightmare, there are few places to haul out - and hauling out is almost mandatory during those winters, and frankly, running lobster pots is a real pain with two hulls and snaggy appendages 15' apart.

So I wouldn't expect to ever see them take over up their. On the other hand, Oysters didn't take over there either - New Englanders love their more traditional boats with more traditional ease of upkeep. And I am glad of that because it gives New England a very special marine flavor and culture.

California has similar qualities that make catamarans not so good of a boat for the climate, costs, and conditions - particularly Northern Cal.

However, get to warmer climes, or live aboard full-time, and nothing beats a catamaran. Not even an Oyster 60.

South of North Carolina, and they are seen commonly. By the time you hit Florida, one thinks that they are all there is. I'm sitting in the Bahamas surrounded by catamarans. The Eastern Caribe is chocked full of them, and the Western Caribe is getting that way. Any place where chartering is occurring - whether bareboat or private - a catamaran is becoming almost necessary to business.

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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Iím having a hard time thinking the younger generation can afford the increased acquisition and maintenance costs. There are always exceptions to the rule, but if cats go mainstream, Iím going to stop worrying about younger gen wages and jobs.
But it is easy for them to afford the acquisition and maintenance of a Jeanneau 54DS?

Many good 38-45' catamarans to be had for <$250,000. That is what ours is worth, and friends just bought a 2005 Leopard 43 in great condition for less. Lagoon 380's go for $150-180,000.

Not to burst your bubble, but catamarans are already mainstream.

Mark

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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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There is a deeper, darker secret for this popularity than that...
Let me guess...skeg hung rudders? ...inner forestay? ...inpoopable cockpit? You're killing me here!
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

No pooping allowed in our cockpit - we have two full heads for that.

The dark secret is that they are simply good boats to sail and live on. They don't sail anywhere near as badly as detractors like to think, and their livability underway and on anchor is way greater than the detractors like to think.

The worse, nastiest passages have us taking hot showers in a full-sized enclosed shower every day, cooking on a level stove/oven without pot holders, eating off plates on a table without fiddles, sleeping in a full queen sized bed without lee cloths, walking around normally without chamfer boards along the edges, and sitting anywhere we want in the boat in any position.

At rough anchorages, we are usually tucked into protection in 5' of water watching the metronomes swing back and forth way behind us. The acres of solar keep us fully charged, heat our water, and run our high output AC watermaker. There are two separate hulls with full living quarters, so we can get privacy and space from each other to do different things - I can play guitar in one hull while Michele naps or reads in another, and it is like being on two separate boats.

But water tight bulkheads have nothing to do with it.

Maybe Oyster will come back with a catamaran - Bavaria and Dufour have now gone that way.

Mark
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post #60 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I can't take this comment seriously because it implies that cats are flipping or doing otherwise serious mishaps constantly, and water tight bulkheads or redundant engines are the only thing keeping them from being lost altogether. And that this is a reason for their popularity - you might flip 3 or 4 times a year, but at least you won't sink: where do I sign the contract?

FWIW, many of the popular catamarans will sink if holed sufficiently because they displace more than they have structural buoyancy, and many of those water tight bulkheads are no longer that way after installing equipment. Some never were really water tight. Even the ones that do float will generally only do so to a survival level - you won't be sailing it into port for repairs.

Yet people are still buying these models in droves - several year waiting lists for some.

Again, if these features are considered so important to purchasing a boat, why would anyone buy a monohull at all? Obviously these features aren't important to them, or they would only buy a catamaran.

Trust me, it is not why catamarans are selling hand over fist and why many mono builders are now trying to start up catamaran lines. There is a deeper, darker secret for this popularity than that...

Mark

You are wrong. That is not what I said. I didn't imply anything. You have no idea what my history with cats is. I stopped reading your post after the first two sentences because it wasn't based on my quote.
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