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post #61 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

Here is your quote:

Quote:
I can pretty well gaurantee cats wouldn't be as popular as they are if they were sinking left right and centre, but they are not, which is partially due to damage control features inherent to their design.
You are correct that they would not be popular if they were sinking left and right, and also correct that they are not sinking left and right, but then you make the claim that they are not sinking left and right partially because of damage control features of their design - which you early eluded to as water tight compartments and redundant systems, and I assumed you also meant no lead and foam cores, etc.

These features have nothing at all to do with the fact that catamarans are not sinking left and right. Not even partially. They would only come into play if catamarans were flipping or suffering other damages left and right - which they are not.

I can't see how that isn't implied in your statement.

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post #62 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

Like I said, you read it wrong. I personally feel catamarans have the potential to be very safe. The damage control features I listed, in my opinion make them more safe as boats, I am not implying they make up for some inherent flaw.

The last catamaran I skippered (commercial), had 16 watertight compartments, incredible initial stability and redundancy in every single system including a redundant bridge. It was a fantastically safe and efficient boat. If you think you have found a cat hater in me, you misread my post.

There was no hidden message in my post.

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post #63 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
In 2016 multihulls made up almost half of the overall charter fleet...and about 16% of the US imports. Though the imports were down a bit from that previous year, the domestic production of 30'+ multihulls was up 71% - and represented 20% of overall domestic production (now there's some important stats).
Twenty percent of overall domestic production is a lot higher than I would have guessed.

Holy crap, indeed.
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post #64 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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the domestic production of 30'+ multihulls was up 71% - and represented 20% of overall domestic production
This either needs some context or additional clarity. US production of sail catamarans are almost nil. Endeavor might still make one or two, and then there is Gemini and Mainecat with a single model each still current. Mainecat has only built a couple of their 38. While they would probably pull out the 41 and 30 molds for anyone who wanted one, I'm not aware of them having sold one in a while. After that, I'm only aware of bespoke builders in the US with very low production - single boats every couple of years.

So maybe I'm missing some US builders of quantity? Or maybe the few catamarans produced each year in the US does represent 20% of the domestic production - which would speak alarming volumes about US monohull production going down the tubes.

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post #65 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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.......
There you go. From those who know. I just don't think there are any arguments left.
If that bikini girl said the sun was going to rise tomorrow morning, I would feel a need to double check that.
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post #66 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

La Vagabonde were given that expensive Cat in exchange for featuring it on their series. It is an advertisement, plain and simple, and only a fool would take their "glowing endorsement" seriously - they were paid handsomely to talk about how great it is.
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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La Vagabonde were given that expensive Cat in exchange for featuring it on their series. It is an advertisement, plain and simple, and only a fool would take their "glowing endorsement" seriously - they were paid handsomely to talk about how great it is.
I don't think you have that quite right. Can you show me your evidence of this?
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

Yeah, I've seen that article. And here is what it says regarding the boat...

Quote:
-They have just landed a million-dollar yacht deal, from February 2017
-The photogenic pair have just landed a million-dollar luxury yacht deal, which will replace their existing boat, known as La Vagabonde, from February 2017.
-From February 2017, the couple will have access to a million-dollar 45ft Outremer yet-to-be-built catamaran. Following a totally chance meeting with a manufacturer of luxury vessels in Los Roques, the couple landed the incredible deal.
Where does it say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbrains View Post
La Vagabonde were given that expensive Cat in exchange for featuring it on their series.
"Having access..." to a boat and "landing a deal" on a boat for marketing purposes or whatever else is very different than being "given" a boat.

The bottom line is that they worked out a deal that seemed to take a few months. And though I don't recall Riley ever giving specifics on that deal in their videos (I've watched them all), from my recollection it isn't free for them. It sounded to be more of a multi-year charter deal at some agreed rate.

So, like I said, I don't think you have it quite right when you say that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbrains View Post
La Vagabonde were given that expensive Cat.
Maybe you have something else that proves your claim?

PS - And if you're implication here is that they are lying about the cat and its qualities in these videos I've posted - you are beyond my help. You should invest in Oyster.
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post #70 of 312 Old 02-07-2018
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Re: Oyster is closing its doors

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They certainly seem to be able to sail - even in F8/F9 conditions off the African coast.
For most of us sailing entails more than reaching and running. Of course, they sail those huge cats to the West Indies and other destinations from where they're built, but I'd bet you dollars to donuts, if conditions don't lend themselves to getting where they want to go under sail, they quickly crank up those diesels to get the job done. However, around here they certainly do not sail them very often, even when the conditions are favorable. I see half a dozen or so of those monsters every week, and it is a rarity to see any sail up. They seem to be chartered strictly as luxury platforms to tour the islands in grand comfort. But any way one looks at them, they are by no means the performance yacht that the equivalent size monohull would be. That is what I meant by my comment about the husband.
As for circular staircases, whatever. I haven't seen many on any sort of sailing yacht and they seem a bit pretentious to me.
I know you don't like hearing the negatives about cats for some reason (1.5 to 2 times the dockage and haul out fees to a comparable mono, for instance), and though I'm certainly not prejudiced against multihulls I feel it is very important that those interested in purchasing one understand there is a huge difference between the roomarans and the performance cats. They are as different as a Tahiti Ketch and Mark's boat, Sea Life.
If you had spent 6 years surrounded by catamarans of all sorts, as Nikki and I have, perhaps you might understand the information I am trying to pass on. We have friends and acquaintances that own and sail every sort of cat, from Lagoons to those with wave piercing bows, and even one deep sea ocean racer with a swiveling mast. I've seen them with dual steering stations stuck at the extreme outside of each hull way out in the weather with absolutely no protection, and others with dual cockpit stations from which they can't see anything on the other side of the boat at all. That must be quite difficult when coming into a marina or crowded anchorage, and those are on the better performing boats.
As you might expect, when it's happy hour and sailors get together, they talk about their boats. After a few beers they talk a bit more honestly. You can argue and ignore my comments on cats and go boldly forth and purchase one, no sweat off my brow, but you might be surprised how many cruising couples that have made the switch, have come to feel they have made a huge, very expensive mistake. Perhaps one or two will post on here? I also know many, many more, who are very happy with their cats.
But before someone dumps the better side of 300k on any boat, especially one of a sort you have no experience on (like a monohull sailor interested in a cat), I think it would be a good idea to go rent one for two weeks or so and sail her in weather that isn't ideal, or even fun. That's when one finds out whether any boat is what one expected her to be. Even a week of Christmas Winds might change your mind, or not. At least that is easily accomplished these days, with most cat designs available for charter, as a bareboat or crewed charter.
But to think that the cats over 70 feet, built for the luxury market, are especially good sailboats on all points of sail is a bit naive. I doubt even the manufacturers state that. They are absolutely PERFECT for their market niche, though. Nikki and I would love to operate one for an owner, if we were seeking employment. But just like the captains who sail them around here, if I had to get back to Martinique from the Tobago Cays (140 miles), I'd crank up those big diesels, put up a bit of main for ambiance, point my nose into the wind and get the passengers to their destination as comfortably as possible, in a climate controlled environment. After all, that is exactly what they were designed and built for.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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