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post #131 of 286 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Originally Posted by ianjoub View Post
'first responders' (not sure if the term qualifies for CG
Don't understand this comment. Why would you not consider front line search and rescue first responders?
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post #132 of 286 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Originally Posted by amwbox View Post
I get what you guys are saying, but damn. What's the final lesson here? How many decades of harbor sailing are required before we allow people any mistakes? And let's face it...lots of old salts screwing up right alongside the young ones.

Considering the trivially small number of crowdsourced boats banging around out there, I'm just not that worried about it being some sort of corrupting influence on people being properly burned by their mistakes. Truth is boats are lost all the time, by newbs and the experienced alike. It's not like this is a common occurrence. Look how that Appel person got laughed off the internet.

And as for self expression and the democratization of access...I'm just not seeing a problem. These are good things. Once upon a time sailing was the purview of the elites. When they started building fiberglass boats for the masses, I'm sure those old time yacht club bastards were horrified at the idea of democratized yachting. (And maybe they had some small point, considering the marinas full of rotting, forgotten, plastic boats). And now the people have easy access to content distribution and can be part of the narrative, instead of just that tiny few who could get access to the old fashioned media. Of all the fresh horrors of social media and phone zombies, this is the least of our worries.
Think you missed my point, maybe because I ranmbled all over the place. I wasn’t trying to stifle newbies or say those experiences were all that’s right.

Tired of seeing posts not even related to sailing


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post #133 of 286 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Don't understand this comment. Why would you not consider front line search and rescue first responders?
Just not sure if they would consider it an insult as opposed to being referred to as military. We send special ops teams in to rescue people in danger, don't think they would appreciate being called first responders.
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post #134 of 286 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Originally Posted by ianjoub View Post
Just not sure if they would consider it an insult as opposed to being referred to as military. We send special ops teams in to rescue people in danger, don't think they would appreciate being called first responders.
Okay, that seems like a reasonable perspective.

I was a SAR sailor for about 9 years.

You are tired, you are cold, you are hurt, you are sinking, you call for help and our team would often be the first to respond, often in not very nice weather or conditions. We would give some pretty decent First Aid, extract and if at all possible try to save the boat in the process.

Not exactly sure how others feel, but I think we were first responders.

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post #135 of 286 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Originally Posted by ianjoub View Post
Just not sure if they would consider it an insult as opposed to being referred to as military. We send special ops teams in to rescue people in danger, don't think they would appreciate being called first responders.
I can't imagine why anyone, military or civilian, would object to being described as a first responder. They all rush in to help others, often when danger still exists. As far as I'm concerned, "first responder" is one of the very most honorable titles any person can have and it certainly takes nothing away from any other titles or job descriptions that apply!

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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
I can't imagine why anyone, military or civilian, would object to being described as a first responder. They all rush in to help others, often when danger still exists. As far as I'm concerned, "first responder" is one of the very most honorable titles any person can have and it certainly takes nothing away from any other titles or job descriptions that apply!
Some people get offended by everything. My comment was more like the Seinfeld episode where every 3 line was "not that there is anything wrong with that".
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post #137 of 286 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

Anyone know if their sunken boat has been removed yet?

Mike
Currently: Hunkering down for a bit.

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post #138 of 286 Old 02-17-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
I can't imagine why anyone, military or civilian, would object to being described as a first responder. They all rush in to help others, often when danger still exists. As far as I'm concerned, "first responder" is one of the very most honorable titles any person can have and it certainly takes nothing away from any other titles or job descriptions that apply!

It's an interesting term. Very American. Not used anywhere else until recently.

It's always difficult to find the history of a term, but I can't see it used in the Australian media before 2011, and there's no use of it again till 2014... And it took off in 2015.

To me - and *please* this is just an opinion about language - there's several words or phrases that become used or misused because of their emotive effect. "Hero" is a classic. Now it means little or nothing. Yesterday there was a report of a Hero baby that underwent a heart operation at 1 week old. Extraordinary surgery but the baby had no choice, no heroic deed done by it. There may have been heroism or just vast risk by the operating doctor... But not the baby.

"First Responder" in Australian vernacular, not American, is a bit weird. Who is that? Anyone with a badge? Like Stephen Crane's The Red Badge of Courage it can mean sweet F a. The person is paid to do a job and happens to be there because of a rota, luck, on duty etc etc. There's no special 'thing' to being employed.

In Australia the largest Australian flags are flown at used car dealerships... In the USA the largest mobile US flags are flown behind firetrucks.

Cultural differences can not be easily understood by travellers. But it's very important to be able to identify these differences... That's education ☺️

That we use language differently dies not make it correct or incorrect... It's just different. (recent example America being a Republic / democracy / both etc. Those words have a different meaning outside the USA. Surprised the hell out of me)


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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

∆∆∆ if I am not mistaken, the term come into popular US language after the collapse of the world trade center because a lot of the casualties were the first to respond: fire fighters and police.

In the Homeland Security Act in 2002 the term was defined in the US (except they called it something like "Emergency response providers"), and it clearly includes Federal response agencies, this was after all a Federal Act.

My first encounter with the term in relation to marine SAR was working at a small town SAR base in 2004 and the town put on a First Responders Day luncheon and church service. We were invited and seemed to be the focus of the church service.

I know the term is defined in provincial law in Canada since at least 2013.

Who would not be considered a first responder is the sea tow guy who actually evacuated these two folks off their Columbia in John's Pass.

That's my understanding any way.
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post #140 of 286 Old 02-17-2018
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Re: Another newbe sank their boat

Language and meaning of words is an interesting topic... we understand the world with language and language uses words and words have meanings using other words and so on. Semantics and semiotics are fascinating subjects. There is no one to one correspondence of words in different languages and there is not universal meaning of words of use of them in the same language spoke in various parts of the world or even a single state.

And of course meaning and thoughts usually involve a series of works not a single one. I have no idea of why this is being raised in this thread but for sure communication is not possible without language... and as we see on this and other forums there will be lots of misunderstandings because language is not binary but very complex.

Cultural differences may NOT be easily understood... they may be easy to NOTICE... understanding is much difficult.
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