Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread) - Page 10 - SailNet Community
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post #91 of 119 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread

Find above not logical. Believe basic paradigm to be incorrect.
When you buy a truck you pay more as load carrying ability increases this translates into increasing weight of the vehicle. Be it pick up trucks, straight frames or tractor trailer. Bigger/stronger, heavier suspension, heavier frame, engine etc. Then you think about conveniences and comfort for the driver.
When you buy a supercar or race car you pay increasingly progressively obscene amounts of money for each ounce of weight taken off the vehicle. Then you think about what can be done to make the driver function better and move the car faster.
Same applies here. This dynamic goes back to the ultralights of the 60s. It’s nothing new. Vacuum bagging panels, using prepreg, baking large boats in huge high tech ovens isn’t cheap. Nor is hand constructing a turbo Bentley. Once one thinks about whether the vessel is a displacement hull meant to function solely in displacement mode or plane/foil the aesthetic of the infill is in large measure determined.
Sure you have many pretenders in production boat aesthetics. But it’s like putting ground effects on a econobox. Also for purposes of marketing there’s a disconnect between the surface look and quality of construction.
Much is made of wood looks in the above pretty pictures. Verneers can be done cheaply or be quite expensive. Take a walk through NEB or similar yard. Then walk through LM. Then go up to Covey.
You’ll see solid wood built to last beautifully through multiple generations, sandings, and refinishings and high tech wood with the strength of steel at nominal weight. With current technologies you can achieve a particular “ look” (race boat/ luxury boat/ commercial boat) and keep to a certain price point. Or the “look” can evolve from the function of the vessel and expections of the owner.
Unfortunately at present believe the “look” comes first in production boats as selling is what drives production. The function comes in second.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #92 of 119 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread

Thanks for the examples of several boat interiors. Compact interiors of monos make sense because they heel when sailed... and it is unsafe to have empty space with nothing to hold on to or brace oneself in a seaway. I suppose the calculus which also drove the FORM of the interiors is that with more stable steady motion... the interior design's need to allow people to safely move through them has lessened. And for sure at anchor this need is not there.

I would point out that open and "airy" may not always be desirable in the tropics. The sunlight and heat can be very oppressive at times and "escaping" into a cool dark interior can be relaxing. Who wants to wear sun glasses all the time... even when inside. Of course you're not inside as much as you are outside in the tropics... but when you do need to escape the bright and heat... a well insulated, ventilated even darker interior can be relaxing.

I would further point out that the joinery in a sailboat is not furniture "tacked" to the sole. For the most part it is integral to the hull stiffness... same as bulkheads. However structurally cats are different from monos...

In relating interiors of sailing vessels to interior architecture it should be noted that psychologically people seem to be more comfortable with "traditional" than they are with moderism. Sure there are expensive sleek modernist examples of architecture and interior architect being built today. But I would argue that the vast majority where big money is spent is "neo classical/traditional". This is more about psychological motivations than form follows function. In terms of plans... there has only been relatively minor changes and differences between modern and neo classical plans. This is because the hierarchy and functional relationship of interior spaces.

There is also somewhat of a friction in straight line modernism with the functional and elegant curves related to fluid dynamics... boats, planes and cars. Straight is economical to produce... often more functional. What we seen in boat interiors historically is a softening of the straight, a concession to the curve in a harmonious "marine interior geometry". I suspect the historical examples of historical success... make the unsuccessful (in to many eyes) modernist "Ikea" interiors stand out as failures.

The cat interiors I see are still working at establishing a new interior sensibility for a marine interior. It's a new territory and the only reference are the old monos. But note how many of the newer and larger monos are having a go at this new "aesthetic". I suspect it may take time for this to be universally accepted as people cling to what has been psychologically historically comfortable.

NB that larger and wider platforms that move around... heal and yawl need "things" to support people moving inside them. What I see is to much of "unseaworthy" but attractive interior spaces. To make them more seaworthy is to clutter them . It's an inherent contradiction with no perfect solution I fear.

And there really was almost no gradual "evolution" of the interior of these boats.... they took a big step into "new". Perhaps this offered many what they wanted while losing something that they had... in both the psychological and functional sense.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy, no controversy, cat thread

Nice looking custom Chris White 54.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994...g#.WoWF4cpOmhA


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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread

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I know but cant say
Actually I looked on their Twitter feed and think I know the answer. Impressive.
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread

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Not a Hobie but pretty amazing

11 days! That is incredible. I like the setup of that boat with the extended wings that can double as a "tent" or a hiking support. Very cool.

The dragons are losing their bite.
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy, no controversy, cat thread

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Nice looking custom Chris White 54.
1994 Custom Catamaran Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


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I just threw up in my mouth a little. $150K?!?!?!?







I love this part...

Quote:
While she does need some cosmetic projects she is ready to go to work and in fact has all of the necessary equipment and supplies on board including snorkeling gear, coolers, 40 life vests and all safety gear.
Well, now I understand the asking price.

Are Chris White designs "home built"? I'm seem to recall that to be case. I remember a guy from Oz on stuffiminto who was building a CW I think. Was doing a nice job but had been at it for years and years.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 02-15-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Thanks for the examples of several boat interiors. Compact interiors of monos make sense because they heel when sailed... and it is unsafe to have empty space with nothing to hold on to or brace oneself in a seaway. I suppose the calculus which also drove the FORM of the interiors is that with more stable steady motion... the interior design's need to allow people to safely move through them has lessened. And for sure at anchor this need is not there.

I would point out that open and "airy" may not always be desirable in the tropics. The sunlight and heat can be very oppressive at times and "escaping" into a cool dark interior can be relaxing. Who wants to wear sun glasses all the time... even when inside. Of course you're not inside as much as you are outside in the tropics... but when you do need to escape the bright and heat... a well insulated, ventilated even darker interior can be relaxing.

I would further point out that the joinery in a sailboat is not furniture "tacked" to the sole. For the most part it is integral to the hull stiffness... same as bulkheads. However structurally cats are different from monos...

In relating interiors of sailing vessels to interior architecture it should be noted that psychologically people seem to be more comfortable with "traditional" than they are with moderism. Sure there are expensive sleek modernist examples of architecture and interior architect being built today. But I would argue that the vast majority where big money is spent is "neo classical/traditional". This is more about psychological motivations than form follows function. In terms of plans... there has only been relatively minor changes and differences between modern and neo classical plans. This is because the hierarchy and functional relationship of interior spaces.

There is also somewhat of a friction in straight line modernism with the functional and elegant curves related to fluid dynamics... boats, planes and cars. Straight is economical to produce... often more functional. What we seen in boat interiors historically is a softening of the straight, a concession to the curve in a harmonious "marine interior geometry". I suspect the historical examples of historical success... make the unsuccessful (in to many eyes) modernist "Ikea" interiors stand out as failures.

The cat interiors I see are still working at establishing a new interior sensibility for a marine interior. It's a new territory and the only reference are the old monos. But note how many of the newer and larger monos are having a go at this new "aesthetic". I suspect it may take time for this to be universally accepted as people cling to what has been psychologically historically comfortable.

NB that larger and wider platforms that move around... heal and yawl need "things" to support people moving inside them. What I see is to much of "unseaworthy" but attractive interior spaces. To make them more seaworthy is to clutter them . It's an inherent contradiction with no perfect solution I fear.

And there really was almost no gradual "evolution" of the interior of these boats.... they took a big step into "new". Perhaps this offered many what they wanted while losing something that they had... in both the psychological and functional sense.
Your notes are spot on, we don't want a light, bright, open interior. We much prefer a darker teak interior, it's cooler and easier on the eyes, we've even painted the ceilings of our hard dodger and bimini a flat dark blue to cut the glare when on deck. We also agree that we don't want a dance floor below and prefer a more closed in saloon for passages. The wonderful open spaces enjoyed at anchor is terrible when underway. Being able to brace oneself while moving about in a seaway is a good thing.

Some argue they are at anchor most of the time and want the openness, that's fair but we've sailed in enough crappy weather to think otherwise. Pick your poison.
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post #98 of 119 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy, no controversy, cat thread

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I just threw up in my mouth a little. $150K?!?!?!?







I love this part...



Well, now I understand the asking price.

Are Chris White designs "home built"? I'm seem to recall that to be case. I remember a guy from Oz on stuffiminto who was building a CW I think. Was doing a nice job but had been at it for years and years.


Some CW are home built but quite a few are built by custom builders. She’s in rough shape but with a strip plank hull should be strong and light.


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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy, no controversy, cat thread

Here’s one that makes me drool. Also strip plank construction.
http://www.catamaransite.com/Whiteha...or-sale-1.html


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Re: Bluewater cruising cat for 150K? (Challs happy, happy no controversial cat thread

At present and for many years Chris White has been building his own boats. The present Atlantic mastfoils are built in chili to the best of my recall. I’ve sailed on one offs to his design but those have to my knowledge been built in established yards. I’ve never seen a home built Chris White but can’t say they don’t exist. The boat posted above appears to have been unloved and uncared for being used as a commercial platform. This is not representative of his portfolio.

s/v Hippocampus
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