Tablet Navigation as a backup? - Page 40 - SailNet Community
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post #391 of 559 Old 04-05-2018
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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
As an outsider to this discussion, it was still pretty obvious to me (from reading his prior couple of posts) that fallard was referring to the integration of ActiveCaptain crowdsourced data into the Bluecharts Mobile app, and the way that newly acquired data structures may be breaking the app, perhaps due to a different collection method that Garmin is using since their takeover of AC.

I'm not a computer scientist at all, but I've worked with enough of these things to easily anticipate answers to the proverbial question, "What could possibly go wrong?"
Ah, right! I got confused with tablet apps and radar and everything else. Actually, I somehow skipped the AC post when scrolling. Thanks!

For that discussion, the Garmin Bluechart app is no longer supported, so those of us with it are just riding on borrowed time and will have to just take what happens. Or pay a whopping amount for a new sucky app. It sucks. On the other hand, it was a poor nav app anyway, but had a great chart display and Explorer chart support. Don't ask me my opinion about AC and Garmin now...

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post #392 of 559 Old 04-05-2018
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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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Those facts were straight and they still stand. You have shaded a definition and twisted a meaning to make yourself believe you are correct. Fine with me - we all apparently seem to be entitled to our own facts here. Again, my correction to my post was only to make clear that radar units without ARPA capability cannot perform ARPA. While that statement seemingly would not need clarifying in a normal world, here in Sailnet world some of us must be extra vigilant in our words.

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So you continue to deny that an ARPA is a complete system rather any single component of the system? I linked the IMO performance standards for folks to review. Many factors went into consideration for those standards including medical standards for sea farers, which include vision standards, hence the minimum screen sizes. Which for small commercial vessels 0-500 tons is 195 mm x 195 mm.

These standards were not dreamed up by a marketing department. They were the result of careful study after the loss of many lives attributed to inadequate or improper use of navigational aids or practices. It was you who said full commercial implementation, and that just isnt what it is. This isnt beast mode as some suggest, there are standards that define what a complete ARPA system is. I would not even care if you had not felt the need to correct me, but those little iPad RADAR things are not full implementation of commercial ARPA.
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post #393 of 559 Old 04-05-2018
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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

Wait, I just reread everything and am now confused. Fallard responded directly to my post about connecting a tablet to a NMEA network and getting all of the data on it. This had nothing to do with Garmin or AC - they don't even take NMEA data.

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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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Before I retired, in addition to hardware issues in the real world, I had to deal with some serious software bugs when separately-developed software modules were integrated, so I speak from MY experience when raising doubts about an agglomeration of software modules that has not been put through the ringer under real-world conditions. Software engineers know about beta testing and there are lots of anecdotes about vendors leaving the beta testing to early adopters of their new stuff. I use "beta testing" in the broadest sense to include human interfaces as well as software functionality.

It's all about unintended consequences and the more complex the system, the more you need to ring things out.
I'm in the same relative line of work still. And I completely agree with this.

I also am pleased to assure you and the readers about the robustness and lack of buginess in the iPad nav system that I've laid out previously - and tested myself extensively, finding it incredibly stable.

So, I just think it's always important to understand that it's not the platform (iPad/apps or MFDs/proprietary software) that's in question here. It's the specific bundle of technology being used - like ActiveCaptain being the bug behind your issues (and not causing me any problems because I stay away from it like the plague) - or many times it's even the user...as I'm sure you'll attest being in from the tech side of life.

That was Mark's point above regarding the simplicity of what we are talking about here on the iPad side, I believe - and he's right. We are talking about a very, very simple combination of hardware and software that is very likely simpler than a proprietary solution. It is amazing to me how far sailors typically will go to find "non-WestMarine" solutions to just about everything, but will insist on a purely WestMarine solution in this arena.

The funny thing is, as you can see with these products - the West Marine solutions are looking more and more like the iPad solutions.

So, as always, pick what you want. But be clear that issues of stability are solvable on the iPad side just as they are on the WestMarine side. The issues surrounding the Navico 4G (Simrad, B&G, Lowrance) radar mentioned above are perfect examples of that. And you can easily kick Garmin/AC to the curb.

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post #395 of 559 Old 04-05-2018
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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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So you continue to deny that an ARPA is a complete system rather any single component of the system? I linked the IMO performance standards for folks to review. Many factors went into consideration for those standards including medical standards for sea farers, which include vision standards, hence the minimum screen sizes. Which for small commercial vessels 0-500 tons is 195 mm x 195 mm.

These standards were not dreamed up by a marketing department. They were the result of careful study after the loss of many lives attributed to inadequate or improper use of navigational aids or practices. It was you who said full commercial implementation, and that just isnt what it is. This isnt beast mode as some suggest, there are standards that define what a complete ARPA system is. I would not even care if you had not felt the need to correct me, but those little iPad RADAR things are not full implementation of commercial ARPA.
Sheesh. Those little ipad radar things aren't full implementation of commercial ARPA because they don't have an ARPA feature at all. I never claimed they were. Did you read any of the above?

I will let my responses stand because they are vetted and true. Shade away with your definitions and twist meanings as you will. If you really think someone doesn't have true ARPA functionality simply because their display is 1/2" too small, I'm fine with it. If you haven't seen a recreational boat under 70' with true ARPA capability (even by your stringent definition), then you don't get out much - I was on three of them this week alone. All under 50'. And there are only 5 boats around us.

Better yet, please put me back on ignore. If you can't in theory, please do so in practice - I don't want to effect your health. Or your facts.

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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

Congratulations, youíve officially broken the internet :

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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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Originally Posted by Arcb View Post
So you continue to deny that an ARPA is a complete system rather any single component of the system? I linked the IMO performance standards for folks to review. Many factors went into consideration for those standards including medical standards for sea farers, which include vision standards, hence the minimum screen sizes. Which for small commercial vessels 0-500 tons is 195 mm x 195 mm.

These standards were not dreamed up by a marketing department. They were the result of careful study after the loss of many lives attributed to inadequate or improper use of navigational aids or practices. It was you who said full commercial implementation, and that just isnt what it is. This isnt beast mode as some suggest, there are standards that define what a complete ARPA system is. I would not even care if you had not felt the need to correct me, but those little iPad RADAR things are not full implementation of commercial ARPA.
Heh-heh, this sounds very reminiscent of a previous conversation about a different body of standards I referenced in discussions about the capability of various boats in certain colors of water. That ended well.
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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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Congratulations, youíve officially broken the internet :

I would like to share in the humor, but I don't get it

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Re: Tablet Navigation as a backup?

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I would like to share in the humor, but I don't get it

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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Congratulations, you’ve officially broken the internet :

I would like to share in the humor, but I don't get it



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