Sustainable Sailing - Page 8 - SailNet Community
 37Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #71 of 78 Old 05-04-2018 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Luckybeanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 14
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Did we loose the OP?
No you didn't loose me. Thank you all for the amazing inputs and ideas. No I wasn't scared off by the comments, on the contrary I've rather enjoyed the discussion it has sparked, I've just been busy travelling around Southern Africa living out of a 1989 Toyota Cresseda. On the road I came across a lady who runs a backpackers and feeds her guests from her small veggie garden. We spent over a week there and didn't have to buy food once, learning how to preserve surplus into chutney, jams and pickles we left loaded up and were still eating from the bounty two weeks later in Mozambique. Which is exactly the thinking behind growing produce on the boat or on land when anchored up for longer periods, when it is time to move on one harvests all and preserves it using old tried and tested methods... We seem to forget modern refrigeration is less than 200 years old and we have been crossing oceans a lot longer than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post

Now look all you nay sayers there is a way to do it.

Go to Rio Dulce, Hurricane hope, fresh water, few authorities.
Build a bit bamboo raft with a bit on top. Build it modular.
Every year build two new modules and shift stuff to the new raft section.
No need to maintain the old sections, just build faster than they rot.

There you go, a big flat floating platform that needs no heat or AC. Small waves, no salt, minimum wind.

Then you can build your farm on top.

Of course you will go nowhere but I didnít see the idea of traveling featured prominently in the OP.

Bored and grumpy today.
hpeer we also watched an amazing documentary on a fella who has done just as you describe only he uses trash.
While an incredible feat, I'd look to be somewhat more mobile. Though it does talk to a point I think many on this forum seem to miss. From how it reads here most people here live on their boats part time, sailing under a schedule, with homes and families to get back to. My intention would be to stay in one place for much longer periods of time, the boat would be my home and my main means of travel. Which is why the consideration of where to buy is important as I'd likely spend a few years around the area before venturing further afield, only moving on when required or the itch arises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Len View Post
Joking aside I bartered seafoods for garden produce for many years of coastal cruising. Canning and drying when excess of daily needs. No regular job as I was good at fixing others stuff.
This is exactly my thinking. There is clearly no way to grow all food needed on a 35-40ft boat. Things like grains and flours are just not feasible. Though if one could trade for them it is all the better. Plus that would just be the intention where possible, there will obviously be produce purchased where needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbianka View Post
Pulled out my Westerbeke diesel ten years ago and replaced it with electric propulsion. Was a leap of faith back then but, would never go back to diesel now. Maintenance costs dropped to near zero compared with diesel. Bought a Honda 2000 generator for charging in case my solar and wind systems can not meet demand. Use it much less than I thought I would. Best part is I can make fuel (energy) while underway (and at anchor) using solar and wind and if I start getting up near 6 knots regeneration with the prop. Another nice thing the boat smells clean since their is no diesel or antifreeze on board to spill and just a little oil for the Honda generator.
Thanks so much for chiming in and all the valuable info. The more I investigate the more I see EP is the way to go. You say batteries have not come along since your system, but listening to the Tesla earnings call yesterday I'd have to say that in the last couple years they have drastically come down in price and availability. Not only can one now find used electric car packs, as someone else in this post mentioned they are becoming more readily available, but there are tons of old laptop and consumer electronic batteries that can be picked up at a steal and converted into a pack. There are even kits available to make the packs https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...65/description.

Also researching solar, in the last few years panel prices have dropped exponentially, whilst getting far more efficient. That 10 or even 5 year old 100watt panel you have that cost a thousand dollars probably only had about 10 to 12 percent efficiency. You can now buy a 400 watt panel with 20 percent efficiency for around $400. Not to mention thin film solar which can greatly increase the available area in which one can capture power.


The more I've researched the more possible this idea is becoming. The next step is to find the right boat. I was looking in the States, but realised that like so much over there where everything is about money and profits, taking little regard for the environment and people, so too have many of the boats been designed. They often tend to be of lesser build quality and poorly maintained compared to their European counterparts. As to when approaching sellers, the European sellers seem to want to go out of their way to help potential buyers and are more excited about welcoming a new member to the salty community than about making an extra penny on the sale. This obviously doesn't go for all and there are plenty of American sellers who are similar in attitude. This seems to come across on these forums too. There are those who are simple at heart and do it for the love and freedom of the ocean, wanting to share that passion with all, they seem to understand that life is not about rushing from one place to another and would rather be under the power of the wind than a smelly engine even if it means moving along at 1kt. Then there are those who seem to think that having a boat is about showing off to neighbors, a toy to take out during the summer break and have to get back to the dock by 5pm less they miss their t-off time. To each their own, but I firmly fall into the first category and am excited to see where I can take this idea...
Luckybeanz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #72 of 78 Old 05-04-2018
Senior Member
 
hpeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Onboard
Posts: 1,587
Thanks: 19
Thanked 48 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

While I appreciate your sentiment your ideas have a lot of contratictory elements. I suggested the raft on Lake Isabel because it is one of the few venues where your basic concept is perhaps workable.

There is conceptual flaw in that you rely upon high tech (batteries and solar) to promote a low tech life style. But everything about any modern boat is high tech from the hull to the sails to the navigation equipment. I see our boats, in part, as “bug out boats” capable of removing us from the worst of a disaster, but as a temporary means of support while they transport us to some habitable place. So I’m embracing modern high tech.

I don’t think there has ever been a time in history where your concept was realized, except perhaps in some extremely limited fashion. That points to it having sever difficulties. Beyond that our modern world is far different from our historic world making the dream even more difficult. Trade is highly regulated, populations are starving, guns are widely available. Trade requires movement on a realistic time scale, products spoil or rust, slow speed exposes one to the elements and storms.

So here is my suggestion, get a small sail boat and live on it for a year, do some coastwise sailing, get intimate with the reality of living on the water and moving about. While you are doing that draw up your plans for your bigger dream, hit you will be doing it with more experience and realistic expectations.

In the meantime I would highly recommend “Voyaging on a Small Income” by Annie Hill. She and her husband eschewed modern life, built a engineless sailing dory, and travelled around the Atlantic Circuit for many years living very cheaply. You may find her in someways a soulmate. A very inspiring book.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B603S16...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

Good luck in your endeavors.

33' Brewer, Murray 33, steel cutter
44' Pape, Steelmaid, cc steel cutter

Last edited by hpeer; 05-04-2018 at 08:59 AM.
hpeer is online now  
post #73 of 78 Old 05-04-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Jackson WY
Posts: 2,205
Thanks: 45
Thanked 85 Times in 84 Posts
Rep Power: 19
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

One thing you neglect to factor into your plans is everything is finite on a boat. All your resources are limited by the size of the boat you own. Unless you build a floating garbage island wherever you stop, you have no back yard or even a garage. The easiest way to be sustainable when sailing is to save up some money and keep your life as simple as possible, It sounds like you have the living simply part down but willing to throw philosophy away to live on a boat/farm.

In order to do anything close to what you are describing you will end up with a boat more complex. Being able to keep a solar array, battery panels and watermaker up and running can be expensive and a lot of work. If any one of these fails your garden could die.

The other limiting capacity on a small boat is capacity. By the time you load your boat with all the equipment needed to house your farm, it is going to be heavy. So you will need a larger electric motor, then more solar panels, more batteries then probably another larger motor.

To be feasible you should probably start out with a larger boat something like this.
Attached Thumbnails
2fae44e8e60e5dfdde602748d427d0a5.jpg  

Jordan
West Wight Potter 14 "Lemon Drop"
Oceanside CA
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
jephotog is online now  
 
post #74 of 78 Old 05-04-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast U.S
Posts: 2,369
Thanks: 5
Thanked 85 Times in 82 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

"Thanks so much for chiming in and all the valuable info. The more I investigate the more I see EP is the way to go. You say batteries have not come along since your system, but listening to the Tesla earnings call yesterday I'd have to say that in the last couple years they have drastically come down in price and availability. Not only can one now find used electric car packs, as someone else in this post mentioned they are becoming more readily available, but there are tons of old laptop and consumer electronic batteries that can be picked up at a steal and converted into a pack. There are even kits available to make the packs https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...65/description."

Yes Musk is changing the game with his Tesla product and battery factory. But, for me while price is important simplicity is too. Another issue for me is that Lithium battery packs require a BMS (Battery Managment System) whice monitors the charging of eacj individual cell. This requires more electronics and more points of failure compared to the brute AGM lead acid batteries. I probably will switch to Lithium at some point but, for now AGM serves my needs perfectly in a simple KISS Keep It Simple Sailor way. But, I also know that when I decide to switch to Lithium it will be a simple matter of taking out the old battery bank and installing the new one. The rest of my EP system will stay the same.


"Also researching solar, in the last few years panel prices have dropped exponentially, whilst getting far more efficient. That 10 or even 5 year old 100watt panel you have that cost a thousand dollars probably only had about 10 to 12 percent efficiency. You can now buy a 400 watt panel with 20 percent efficiency for around $400. Not to mention thin film solar which can greatly increase the available area in which one can capture power."

Yes that is true. I've already taken advantage of the new solar advances. EP allows upgrading various pieces of the system to take advantages of such up grades. I'm also planing on adding more solar and get to the point where I can run under solar alone.
I've also experimented with some up grades that did not work out but, did not break the bank. For example my Zivan NG-1 48 volt 900 watt battery charger will push my 8 ton boat along at 3 knots without drawing any amps from the battery bank. But, my Honda 2000 generator can put out 1600 watts continuous. So I could really pull another 700 watts and use it for propulsion as well. So I bought a 48 volt 600 watt power supply thinking I could run both the Zivan charger and power supply in parallel and get more amps when Electro-sailing. Unfortunately the sensing of the power supply detects the output of the charger and does not add any amps. Since the power supply cost less than $100 bucks it was not that much of an expense. My next step will be to buy a 1500-1600 watt power supply and use that alone when Electro-sailing to be able to use more of the available output of the Honda. It can also serve as a simple backup charger as well. But, it's just an example of how you can easily modify and add on to an EP system.

Mike
Currently: Heading to warm waters over the winter on a variety of boats.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mbianka is online now  
post #75 of 78 Old 07-02-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Currently, Hout Bay, South Africa
Posts: 210
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

Luckybeanz , When you first started this thread I had the below video, on how to use a coconut, in the works. Back in the late 1970s and early 1980s I experimented with trolling for plankton to use as a food source, caught fish and on Suwarrow atoll, in the Pacific, ate frigate eggs, coconut crabs and whatever I could catch. Coconuts were certainly part of the diet. In the end, I lost weight and decided life is much easier when one can just open a can. Growing enough food on a boat can only be supplementary to the greater source which comes from the sea. Look at how long people have survived on extended life raft journeys by eating barnacles and catching fish and the occasional bird. The coconut video was filmed on the uninhabited atoll of Chagos in the Indian Ocean. There is a "survival" video just before this one about water on an atoll. Probably next week I will put a video on coconut crabs. Fortunately, now, I can do this filming for fun, where back in the late 70s it was more serious as there really weren't that many cans on board to open.
overthehorizon is offline  
post #76 of 78 Old 07-03-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,550
Thanks: 5
Thanked 139 Times in 138 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

How to with coconuts is good stuff to know.Never know when you might have the need. For me my learning about coconuts was from a National Geographic mag. I was about 7 and while waiting for our cow to meet her man the farmers wife gave me cookies and a big box of NG's . I devoured them both.. Story of some young guys (about 1948 50?) survival camping on one of the Marshall Islands amid the wreckage of the war. Learned much from those mags and when I was beached and broke in Tobago (TT) in '68 it all came back to me as I dined au natural. More recently, the last 20 years, I have again been able to use the early learned skills on Koh Jum in Thailand. Not so good at climbing now, I use a bamboo pole with a hook knife lashed on.because I don't have a trained monkey.
overthehorizon likes this.
Capt Len is online now  
post #77 of 78 Old 07-17-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Currently, Hout Bay, South Africa
Posts: 210
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

Capt. Len, Sorry we missed you in Koh Jum. We spent a lot of time in Malaysia and Thailand before pushing on to Sri Lanka. We went on to Rodrigues and are now in Mauritius. To continue with sustainable sailing and my theory that natural shore resources have to be part of the equation. I made a video about coconut crabs. I showed how to catch one with your hand without losing a finger to a claw and described how they tasted when cooked and served to us by islanders in the Pacific. Out of 150 views, two people lost track and thought I was talking about eating the crabs in Chagos, in the Indian Ocean, where I was filming and where they are protected. You should have read the howls! To avoid any further confusion, I immediately took down the video and reworked the beginning eliminating all reference to catching or eating. That destroyed the "survival" aspect but did give me a chance to insert a couple points I had forgotten to mention in the original version. Before anyone here goes off from lack of information, these crabs are not protected, and are plentiful, in many place in the Pacific. In the Pacific, the crabs served to us tasted terrible! The legs and claws were boiled along with the body. The body contains a dark fatty "pate" which is the nastiest tasting substance you can imagine and permeated the rest of the meat. The natives love the flavor. In 1980, on Suwarrow atoll, I ate just the claws from a crab and the meat was dark and not good enough to try a second time. From what I am told, the flavor does change in different regions and can be quite good. That point I do bring out in the final parts of the video. Also, contrary to their name, coconut crabs eat very little coconut. There is much easier food for them to have.
mbianka likes this.

Last edited by overthehorizon; 07-17-2018 at 10:12 AM.
overthehorizon is offline  
post #78 of 78 Old 07-17-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,550
Thanks: 5
Thanked 139 Times in 138 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Sustainable Sailing

One doesn't have to sail to the tropics to enjoy crab claws. Grew up on a gill netter before gps and plotters. Easy to drag over a rocky outcropping in the dark. Rock crabs tend to entangle nears the leadline. No time to be gentle when hauling, the claws tend to accumulate underfoot. Pot boils on the way home. Some people offer a bowl of walnuts to guests. Nowadays yachties who don't know how to fish are enjoying squat lobsters. which to me is on the level of snails or locusts.: edible but ,really.?
overthehorizon likes this.
Capt Len is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want To Get Out Of The Office? This Coworking Space Is On A Sustainable Sailboat - Co NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-07-2016 08:40 AM
Sailing the World's Cup into San Francisco's sustainable waters NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-13-2013 01:50 PM
Sustainable SouthCoast offers tours of eco-friendly sailboat - SouthCoastToday.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-20-2007 01:15 AM
USA. US SAILING names 2006 US National Sailing Team @ BYM Sailing News NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-20-2006 03:16 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome