Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 28 Old 07-11-2018
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

To be fair, we should not need to doubt the news at all, but they've all earned the reputation. The problem is the news is "for profit" and there is so much bandwidth now, they often cater in a biased fashion to a niche audience. News is a business.

I seriously wish I could think of a better alternative, as state sponsored news doesn't sound like a good idea either.


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post #12 of 28 Old 07-11-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Cheaper asphalt application or road construction these days? It’s simply not significantly hotter for any longer than it ever has been before. That is where Gary may be on to something. Media needs viewers to sell advertising. Catastrophe sells.

That bridge in Chicago has clearly been through even longer hotter spells than this, in its century of life.
Actually this past year had the hottest winter on record here in Tampa despite several unusually cold days (Jan 18, 2018 was a record breaker for cold) January was unusually warm and February was even warmer breaking several heat records even though there were several cool days too.

Jan 18, 2018 Record Cold in Tampa:
On Jan. 18, 2018: Record cold in Tampa Bay. On Jan. 19, 1977: Snow.

February 2018 warmest February on record in Tampa:
https://www.wfla.com/weather/tampas-...rch/1030551396

For the bridge in the news well its been locked up by the heat before and as it ages and deforms its probably going to get a bit more finicky. Draw bridges have been known to heat up and jam in the half way position in the summer and I can recall a number of times as a youth over 40 years ago being stuck in traffic because after they raised a drawbridge it got stuck and they had to call the fire department to hose down the mechanism to cool it down enough to get it moving again. We learned to avoid those routes whenever possible in the summer since we did not have air conditioning in our cars and it was pure misery to be stuck in traffic at the gate during the dog days of summer.

In Chicago May 2018 went down in the records books for heat as did June 2018 with the extra whammy that the minimum temps did not drop as low at night as they normally would be expected to, so structures heated up during the daytime were not cooling down as much at night, according to the June 2018 summary published on Sun Jul 1 2018 /1008 AM by the National Weather Service Chicago IL.

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post #13 of 28 Old 07-11-2018
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

caberg,

You may be right, not enough blood, guts, gore, women holding babies and crying. I find it amazing how the news media, for some strange reason, doesn't seem to be able to find anything good that happens to write about. There are so many good things happening in the world that never get any ink or video time. 12 children and one adult were just rescued from certain death in a flooded cave, but the TV news coverage was about 12 seconds - that's it! And, the Navy Seal that lost his life in the process was barely mentioned, and no one knows his name. I find this pathetic!

Gary
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

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Actually this past year had the hottest winter on record here in Tampa despite several unusually cold days (Jan 18, 2018 was a record breaker) January was unusually warm and February was even warmer breaking several heat records even though there were several cool days too.
I'm sure that's true (despite the fact that Chicago and Pennsylvania are in question here). I can't tell from your link, but I'm willing to bet that was by a few degrees, not so much that normal bridges should fail and trucks should sink into the asphalt in unprecedented fashion.

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For the bridge in the news well its been locked up by the heat before and as it ages and deforms its probably going to get a bit more finicky.
Thanks for the confirmation. This was fundamentally my point, which is not evident in the sensationalized news.

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In Chicago May 2018 went down in the records books for heat as did June 2018 with the extra whammy that the minimum temps did not drop as low at night as they normally would be expected to, so structures heated up during the daytime were not cooling down as much at night, according to the June 2018 summary published on Sun Jul 1 2018 /1008 AM by the National Weather Service Chicago IL.
Was it the hottest month ever, or just the hottest May ever? Ironically, I quickly found a wikipedia page on the 1995 Chicago heat wave, which references one in 1988 and 1977 as well. I'm not disputing it was hot, nor that these events are occurring. Just that they marginally different, at best, from past experience in our lifetime. Certainly, since these structures were built.

We will need to build new infrastructure and even relocate or fortify our shorelines over time. Frankly, that is where our energy should be focused, not on most of the silly inconsequential stuff we do now. I'm just pushing back on that story making it seem like this is a modern, first time calamity.


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post #15 of 28 Old 07-12-2018
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

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caberg,

You may be right, not enough blood, guts, gore, women holding babies and crying. I find it amazing how the news media, for some strange reason, doesn't seem to be able to find anything good that happens to write about. There are so many good things happening in the world that never get any ink or video time. 12 children and one adult were just rescued from certain death in a flooded cave, but the TV news coverage was about 12 seconds - that's it! And, the Navy Seal that lost his life in the process was barely mentioned, and no one knows his name. I find this pathetic!

Gary
I think you just need to choose your sources wisely. There is still a lot of really good journalism and reporting going on, but yea the mainstream news media is in a sad sorry state these days. It's all about headlines and clickbait, but is it really the media's fault, or the fault of people who keep clicking on that stuff? Still, I really don't think there's a lot of actual "fake news" by the big U.S. news media companies.
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

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I'm sure that's true (despite the fact that Chicago and Pennsylvania are in question here). I can't tell from your link, but I'm willing to bet that was by a few degrees, not so much that normal bridges should fail and trucks should sink into the asphalt in unprecedented fashion.



Thanks for the confirmation. This was fundamentally my point, which is not evident in the sensationalized news.



Was it the hottest month ever, or just the hottest May ever? Ironically, I quickly found a wikipedia page on the 1995 Chicago heat wave, which references one in 1988 and 1977 as well. I'm not disputing it was hot, nor that these events are occurring. Just that they marginally different, at best, from past experience in our lifetime. Certainly, since these structures were built.

We will need to build new infrastructure and even relocate or fortify our shorelines over time. Frankly, that is where our energy should be focused, not on most of the silly inconsequential stuff we do now. I'm just pushing back on that story making it seem like this is a modern, first time calamity.
It is the increasing frequency of the events and the reduced amount of overnight cooling that is of greater concern not simply that the events occur. Also the apparent lack of people reporting some of the events, such as road buckling, in a timely fashion so roads can be blocked off and repaired before there are injuries or losses. It's a sad commentary that folks have to be reminded to call in and report public safety issues.

When I ride my motorcycle I can confirm that asphalt is getting hotter lately and that more of the bituminous content is getting cooked out of it just by how hot and sticky it is under foot when you stop for traffic lights, etc. Especially when riding a motorcycle I am also feeling more depressions in the roadway from heavy trucks that have passed by where the impression is of riding over an inverted cathedral hull where the road at the traffic lines is fairly flat while the center of the lane is raised with a shallow rut on either side of the raised center.

The news on this event was not really sensationalized so I am not sure why some are trying to spread that concept. We really need to be aware and report these events as soon as possible and not get so complacent as to become that frog in the pot of water slowly being raised to the boiling point and not noticing until we've already been cooked.
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

Clearly, whether something is sensationalized is in the eye of the beholder. My reaction is based on the fact that the article never mentions this is not new. If it reported on some facts of how much more frequently it is happening or something more ďscientificĒ, I would find it to be better news reporting. I canít know whether it is or is not happening more often. They mention climate so many times, it comes along cross as pandering to an audience. To get eyes on it. To sell advertising. Iím not pushing back on climate, only on the state of our media.


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post #18 of 28 Old 07-12-2018
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

The year after I graduated Pratt, I took a job at NYSDOT in structures design and I stayed there for 5 years. I designed steel and prepossessed concrete highway bridges. Since that time I've gone onto building design but I've kept up with the trade journals and with colleagues. In my experience and knowledge there does not exist a big trend of expansion joint buckling. Newer bridges of small to moderate size are designed without expansion joints now anyway to eliminate maintenance.

I never worked on a drawbridge design and I would guess one engineer in 100,000 has. I do know they are considered exotic, finicky and sort of untrustworthy when compared to " normal " highway bridges. So its entirely possible that they are showing some type of expansion distress whereas the normal inventory of thousands of bridges does not. A drawbridge with an opening of 200 feet would experience expansion of about 7.2 x 10-6 x say 100F = .3 inches.

Like many other things, common sense says its something to look out for, but its not the end of the world. I doubt it truly signifies global warming as much as it does aging infrastructure and the failure of congress to fund infrastructure projects.
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

Why are some changing heat bound hinges on the draw bridge into an expansion joint issue? The problem being reported on the bridge was the hinges binding from the heat making it so the bridge would lock up. They mentioned that there had not been enough thought giving to swelling sideways in the hinges.
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Re: Heatwaves and Drawbridges, Etc

I appreciate you sharing the issue with us. Iíve never heard of a drawbridge being bound up by heat but apparently it has previously happened and will happen again. Thatís about all there is to this.


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