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post #51 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

Having been curious from time to time if I was going to be run down, or wondering why that big motor yacht went out of their way to pass 50 ft off my bow, I've come to realize that the biggest problem, at least as I see it in Tampa Bay, is boaters having no understanding of the waters they are navigating... no chart, no chartplotter, or no interest in either.

I've encountered 40+ foot yachts that feel the need to pass dangerously close rather than leave the shipping channel, never mind that they have 30 feet of water for a mile in any direction. Either they think that being in the channel grants them stand on, or really have no idea of the surrounding water depth.

I'll bet they wonder why they get flipped off so often.
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post #52 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaStar58 View Post
If boaters in general won't clean up their act on their own then this may become the only practical solution.
Enter the "nanny state"!
Perhaps if most state safe boating courses were actually to teach safe boating rather than for revenue collection, they might make a slight difference. But driver's license tests are a great deal more difficult to pass than the safe boating certificates and include a driving test in a vehicle, yet a whole lot of people are still injured and killed in automobile incidences every year in the US.
Oddly enough, down here where there is no enforcement, licensing or effective remuneration for damages, there seem to be a lot fewer incidences and problems on the water than the states with 'safe boating certificates', even though a great many of the boat operators are definitely unqualified to operate the vessels they are operating.
Personally, I like being treated as an adult, responsible for my own actions, not having the state regulate every aspect of my life. There are a few unlit channel markers down here upon which every once in a great while, some drunk yachtie in his dink kills himself, coming home from the bar. The new to the area yachties scream and petition the government to do something, but they never do, and in a week or two the hubbub dies down until it happens again.
It's not like these marks are invisible every time one goes to the dinghy dock in daylight! It's not like every yachtie doesn't know they are dangerous! It's just that in the eyes of the local governments we are adults and if we choose to be stupid and kill ourselves, then that is our choice and problem!
I felt the same way about helmet laws on bikes and seat belt laws, though to me, seat belts make sense. None of it needs to be regulated, IMO, but left to the discretion of the driver.
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post #53 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilCarlson View Post
Having been curious from time to time if I was going to be run down, or wondering why that big motor yacht went out of their way to pass 50 ft off my bow, I've come to realize that the biggest problem, at least as I see it in Tampa Bay, is boaters having no understanding of the waters they are navigating... no chart, no chartplotter, or no interest in either.

I've encountered 40+ foot yachts that feel the need to pass dangerously close rather than leave the shipping channel, never mind that they have 30 feet of water for a mile in any direction. Either they think that being in the channel grants them stand on, or really have no idea of the surrounding water depth.

I'll bet they wonder why they get flipped off so often.

I have a sort of "lookout vigilance scale" for powerboats (Lake Pontchartrain for me, where i teach sailing from time to time)

Early in the day, powerboat is heading "down-sun"?? He may be sober, and will probably see me.

Later in the day, especially on weekends? May be tipsy or drunk, may be on autopilot, may not see me, though if he's heading down-sun, maybe he will. Up-sun? Forget it, and forget the rules until powerboat visually proves otherwise.

I want my students to live. Makes it much easier teach them ;-)
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post #54 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

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Originally Posted by SeaStar58 View Post
Fortunately they are moving away from Right of Way as the need or obligation is to Avoid other vessels.

There are now only two Right-of-Way instances defined in the Regs and both are related to Vessels with a following current operating in a narrow channel having the right of way.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lesAmalgamated



In Florida they are making it mandatory to take the boaters safety coarse before they will let you register a boat but only if you were born after a certain date however I feel that they should just make it mandatory to take the coarse or show proof that you already have and received a passing grade. They turned over motorcycle testing and licensing to the Motorcycle Safety Foundation and make it mandatory to retake the Basic Riders Course if you get a ticket for a serious infraction plus impound your bike until you return with a certificate indicating you received a passing grade and I really believe the same should be done with boats. If boaters in general won't clean up their act on their own then this may become the only practical solution.

They aren't moving away from "Right of Way" AFIK it was never there to begin with.

Florida, Texas and New York are the three states that incur the most on-water fatalities every year. It makes sense since they have the largest number of boats. YET, until fairly recently those same states had the most Lax regulations.

Most deaths occur however on Inland lakes, in boats under 23' , on a sunny day. The absence of Life Jackets and the Presence of alcohol are major contributing factors.

All things considered, it's still safer than driving.
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post #55 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

Maybe I've been around her long enough that the moderators will allow me to give something away for free.

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post #56 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

I find it kind of funny/sad that sailors need clarification of when they are sailing

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post #57 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

Always a good idea to follow the rule of gross tonnage. My sailboat vs a large ship...I’m good to fall off a bit.
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post #58 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

This idea that sailboats always have the right of way seems to be one of the more common - and dangerous - misconceptions of noob sailors. As others have pointed out, just the use of the term "right of way" conveys a fundamental misunderstanding of what all this is about. Of all the classes of vessels captured by "New Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Some Wednesday" sailboats are pretty far down the pecking order. There are an awful lot of other vessels that sailboats must give way to. It all becomes common sense when you grasp the simple concept that the less maneuverable vessel is stand on. Have some empathy and assess the other vessel’s situation. Someone purely under sail will be stand on vs. most recreational power boats (as long as you’re sure that Sea Ray driver is actually at the helm and can see over his bow). But a barge, freighter, or NUC will always be stand on vs. a recreational sailboat.
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post #59 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

True story about sailboat "right of way". I was sailing 2nd mate on a commercial survey vessel, about 140 ft. We had some environmental samples to collect in a rather busy harbour. The skipper himself was driving because we were anticipating problems, specifically with pleasure boats, sailboats and especially racing sailboats. I was on watch.

I made a Securite call an hour out including our sample destination, 15 minutes out and 5 minutes out. We were showing correct RAMN days shapes, gear down on the starboard side, safe to pass on the port.

We put the gear down on the starboard side in DP mode meaning we were stationary. We had about half a dozen sailboats literally screaming expletives at us for not yielding to them as they were sailboats and had right of way, while we were stationary, with gear down, displaying RAMN shapes.

These werent dinghy sailors they were dudes on nice yachts, 35, 40, 50 Footers, folks who you would think should know something. From my observation, sailboaters can be every bit as bad as Jet Skiiers and Charter fishermen, possibly worse.
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post #60 of 229 Old 07-23-2018
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Re: Right of Way?

Arcb,

This just reinforces my dad's favorite sayings "The average person is well below average and common sense isn't very common these days." Dad was pretty darned smart from my perspective.

Gary
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