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post #71 of 88 Old 09-14-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

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Non sequitur.
If you say so............

The comment was made tongue in cheek. The material doesn't end up on a flower bed, it ends up in a landfill. Where other noxious and nasty material ends up.
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post #72 of 88 Old 09-14-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

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...It's poop in a bag, nothing more.
Nope. It’s dried out poop in a bag diluted with bedding material. Diapers and wag bags are poop in a bag. But no one seems to care about those things.

As for the mislabelling, I guess you’re barking at the wrong people. Go talk to the manufactures or sellers. I don’t really care what you call them, they work. To my mind they have many advantages over standard Type III heads, and for boats that like to visit enclosed anchorages/marinas they are much better than direct discharge systems (macerator, or not).

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post #73 of 88 Old 09-14-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

Mike,
You seem to think I am arguing with you yet I am not. I have friends who are quite happy with their Nature Heads and I am happy for them. Whatever floats your boat as they say.

You are correct that the manufacturers are responsible for the confusion and should be subject to truth in labeling laws.

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post #74 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

I have used my built-in composting head for a few years now and would never go back to a slurry of obnoxious chemicals and liquidized waste sloshing around in a tank, waiting to be pumped into a municipal sewer treatment facility which may actually overflow and dump it all into a river somewhere anyway(with no penalty). My guess is that those with negative opinions are people who have no actual experience with this method of disposal and would rather carry around fifty gallons of sloshing, mixed sewage. Each to their own.

Cleanout of composted material only happens about once a month if cruising full time with two people. The composted material is about as smelly and obnoxious as peat moss. Those who's scientific theories suggest that composting has not occurred are simply wrong. Maybe it's a difference in sampling or testing but composting most certainly does happen in between cleanouts. It can be stored easily for disposal weeks or even months later if need be. The stuff does not have to go into some small dockside container. I have never noticed any explosive gas issue but appreciate that it may be an issue. I suspect that with wet, mixed urine compost this may be more likely.

Pee MUST be separated from #2. If it is not, a really smelly mess will occur. So pee needs to be stored as well. A 5 gallon water container (clearly marked as such:-) takes a LONG time to fill. It can easily be poured down a toilet of offshore.

Places to dispose of compost would be great but is probably not necessary except for maybe places like Marathon, where many people live aboard boats. It sounds as if the Annapolis situation is a knee-jerk reaction to pollution in the harbor in general. I have used the moorings there a number of times and would not like to see Annapolis become another Stuart/Okeechobee where skull and crossbones signs appear to warn people not to get splashed by the water!

Note:Coir is absolutely the only material to use in composters. It somehow begins the composting process much faster than peat or other materials and is much more effective. One large compacted block will last a year.
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post #75 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

I'm learning a lot from this thread. I can see why long-term cruisers would much rather store dessicated waste than liquid waste - it's a far superior way to keep the materials. I can also see why Annapolis has set limits (but hasn't banned) the length of stay for dessicating heads. And I can also see why these heads do not compost.

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...Those who's scientific theories suggest that composting has not occurred are simply wrong. Maybe it's a difference in sampling or testing but composting most certainly does happen in between cleanouts...
Since you call these "theories" wrong, please state the chemical mechanism by which you claim composting is occurring. I think a pretty compelling case has been made that in absence of water and heat, what's happening is dessication and not composting. But I'm open to hear other explanations based on science.

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post #76 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

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I'm learning a lot from this thread. I can see why long-term cruisers would much rather store dessicated waste than liquid waste - it's a far superior way to keep the materials. I can also see why Annapolis has set limits (but hasn't banned) the length of stay for dessicating heads. And I can also see why these heads do not compost.


Since you call these "theories" wrong, please state the chemical mechanism by which you claim composting is occurring. I think a pretty compelling case has been made that in absence of water and heat, what's happening is dessication and not composting. But I'm open to hear other explanations based on science.
Well, I think that the term "composting" is not adequately defined. If it a verb rather than an adjective describing a system then "composting" begins immediately and in fact has started well before the trip to the head. In one of these units there are probably many stages of "composting." There is new poop, old poop, and stuff that no longer can be classified as poop:-)

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post #77 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

If I was making my living off a product that needed to be 100% free of e.coli or other potential pathogen or a product that would die in the presence of too much nitrogen I wouldn’t care about much of this discussion. The entire Chesapeake turns over poorly and is at risk from multiple threats. Garbage placed in even covered shoreside containers is rained on with some delivery of what’s contained. With biologicals volume is not very revelent. Just need sufficient innoculum. Discussion of impact on composting head users is totally irrelevant. Rather risk to others using Annapolis and surrounds is the focus of concern.
Question is does a composting head in active use produce sterile material to throw out. The obvious answer is no it does not. Next question is given current circumstances is it a risk to Annapolis and surroundings. Next question is what needs to be done to eliminate or mitigate this risk if it exists. Last question is it financially worth doing. Apparently Annapolis has decided in the negative. We don’t know their reasoning. Can any poster give evidence has to why they should not have made their decision.
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post #78 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

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Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I suspect this will get challenged in the courts.
How are they going to keep track?
I don't think it will come to that. This isn't the first time a city has tried this. What generally happens is that they are educated on the facts of legality of composting heads and they change the regulation. The GM of Air Head plans to meet with the Annapolis harbormaster when he is there and give her some more information. In the past, from what I understand, this has led to a change in policy to something more fair and reasonable. Here is a statement from the GM of Air Head:

“As a response to some misinformation that has been circulating recently: in regard to legality, the Air Head Composting Toilet is a USCG approved MSD type III in compliance with 33 CFR 159.12a. Evidence of the product's legality is in the regulations and supported by a letter by P.A. Richardson, Captian US Coast Guard dated April 20, 1999. We’ll be glad to share it with anyone who is interested.
Secondly, the Air Head is indeed designed for uninterrupted use. We have 18 years of proof from full-time liveaboards that it can be used uninterrupted for a month. If you have any concerns or questions or would like more information, please contact us through the website: www.airheadtoilet.com.”

So I guess time will tell.
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post #79 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

"Secondly, the Air Head is indeed designed for uninterrupted use. We have 18 years of proof from full-time liveaboards that it can be used uninterrupted for a month."

That is some serious food poisoning!

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post #80 of 88 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Annapolis bans composting toilets for cruisers on hook?

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I can also see why Annapolis has set limits (but hasn't banned) the length of stay for dessicating heads. And I can also see why these heads do not compost.
First, the city hasn't shown any data as to why they are limiting the stay of boats with "composting toilets". Other than to say, incorrectly, that the uninterrupted use of such a device is not their intended use.

And why only one week? Most boats equipped with a such a device can hold up to six weeks of "product" with two people aboard.

And lastly, as I pointed out earlier, if you arrive in Annapolis on a tuesday, and have a full composting toilet. You will still need to empty it ashore on Wednesday...........

Again, why just one week?
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