Winch placement - SailNet Community
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By paulk
  • 1 Post By svHyLyte
  • 2 Post By Jeff_H
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 10-29-2018 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 5,090
Thanks: 530
Thanked 91 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Winch placement

https://providence.craigslist.org/bo...721565109.html

Can anyone tell me why there are winches near the mast on the cabin top?

Also, the placement of the other winches seems a little atypical.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
davidpm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 13,256
Thanks: 91
Thanked 129 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Winch placement

Back then it was commonplace for halyard and topping lift winches and the like to be placed there. Prior to the advent of rope clutches when there was a winch for every line, they weren't usually led aft.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is online now  
post #3 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,489
Thanks: 5
Thanked 138 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Winch placement

What ever happened to real rigging where the lines came down to the little fence around the the mast step (pin rail) and belayed on the whatchma calits (belaying pins?) Now if you mention 'bowse'n tail' someone says geuswuntite.
Capt Len is online now  
 
post #4 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 3,245
Thanks: 4
Thanked 84 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 20
 
Wink Re: Winch placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Back then it was commonplace for halyard and topping lift winches and the like to be placed there. Prior to the advent of rope clutches when there was a winch for every line, they weren't usually led aft.
JonB's avatar shows what can happen when the mast-crew doesn't get word when to let the halyard go.
SloopJonB likes this.
paulk is online now  
post #5 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Old as Dirt!
 
svHyLyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 3,473
Thanks: 27
Thanked 185 Times in 175 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Winch placement

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
https://providence.craigslist.org/bo...721565109.html

Can anyone tell me why there are winches near the mast on the cabin top?

Also, the placement of the other winches seems a little atypical.
Foredeck/Spinnaker Crew need immediate access to the winches for the Spinnaker Halyard and Pole Lift. Moreover, a deck mounted winch is easier to handle when conditions get snotty, particularly when one needs two hands for the winch. (And you're a "Sailing Instructor"?)
adki110 likes this.

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Senior Member
 
overbored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dana Point, Ca
Posts: 2,695
Thanks: 2
Thanked 202 Times in 199 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Winch placement

seems like a bad place for the winches to me. would be very hard to access, no where to stand or kneel. standing on the deck it would be a long reach over the cabin top to crank the winch and the shrouds are in the way to stand there. I they are for the spinnaker then the boom would be just over the leeward winch and that would be dangerous. a quick gib set and one less crew member. I have sailed on many big boats with winch farms but never one with the winches that close to the mast, they are either on the mast or on the edge of the cockpit where you can get close enough to operate them, looks like a home brew location to me. on most C&C 37's I have seen there are Dorados on those humps

"FULL TILT II" 2011 BENETEAU FIRST 30
"GOLD RUSH" PRINDLE 16

Last edited by overbored; 10-29-2018 at 03:38 PM.
overbored is online now  
post #7 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Senior Member
 
BarryL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,291
Thanks: 6
Thanked 116 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Winch placement

Hey,

When I saw your post I immediately thought "old C&C with a winch farm." I have raced on a number of older C&C boats (34, 36, etc.) and they all came with non-self tailing winches right near the mast. One for the main halyard, another for headsail, and a few for spinnakers too.

Very typical, and not at all easy to use.

Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BarryL is online now  
post #8 of 10 Old 10-29-2018
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 7,329
Thanks: 138
Thanked 396 Times in 384 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Winch placement

I saw a Norseman today that had her winches around the mast base. It looked so ridiculous. Sitting on your butt on the cabin top with no way to brace yourself or hold on if using both hands on the winch and line, trying to haul up the main or a headsail? And then one must crane their head at an odd angle to watch what's happening aloft, completely taking one's attention away from the winch and line below you, not right in front of you as they would be on the mast! At least if the winches are on the mast one can pull the sail most of the way up by hand, only using the winch to top it up. And then somebody invented those safety bars around the mast base to support one's self on when working sails and the whole thing became even safer.
I can see it on a full on racer with a full crew, especially for handling chutes and the like, but it makes absolutely no sense to me on a shorthanded cruising boat.
Lastly, let's just place our winches on the boat where actual water will often flow over them, instead of on the mast or behind the dodger where they will get occasional spray only.
As for 'pin rails' and 'belaying (tying off) pins', they were used as cleats in the days before sailing vessels had winches and used blocks and tackles for handling sails. On a true gaff or square-rigged sailing vessel, the halyard passed around a hook-like fitting on the deck and then to the pin rails. The pin rails themselves were not strong enough to haul a sail up taunt.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone

Last edited by capta; 10-29-2018 at 10:57 PM.
capta is online now  
post #9 of 10 Old 10-30-2018
Administrator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 8,805
Thanks: 39
Thanked 432 Times in 362 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Winch placement

As others have said, you are looking at what was called a winch farm. This was standard race boat practice from the late 1960's through the early 1980's. The idea was that this was before the common use of two speed- self-tailing winches and line-locks. Halyards were wire with a rope tails and the wire was wrapped several wraps around the winch when the sail was fully hoisted. Winches were under sized by modern standards.

As a result In those daya, there was a dedicated winch and cleat for each halyard and each major control line. On a sail hoist there would be a trimmer and grinder for each halyard and sheet, and so work areas were purposefully spread out around the deck which resulted in the winch farm that provided space to have two people working together and not get into the way of other trimmers and grinders.

Today, a single pit person with adequately sized, self tailing, two speed winches and line-locks has replaced two crew members at the mast.

Jeff
BarryL and SanderO like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is online now  
post #10 of 10 Old 10-31-2018 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 5,090
Thanks: 530
Thanked 91 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Winch placement

Thank you all. It all makes sense now.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
davidpm is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winch handle in winch glassdad General Discussion (sailing related) 19 05-11-2011 06:10 PM
wierd winch placement jobi Gear & Maintenance 17 07-14-2010 02:46 PM
Spin pole downhaul block placement cmj Gear & Maintenance 0 08-05-2002 05:39 AM
centerboard line re-placement texas bob Gear & Maintenance 0 10-22-2001 11:28 AM
Electronics placement stewpee Gear & Maintenance 1 04-20-2001 05:00 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome