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-   -   Crazy first time out on my sailboat today (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/326634-crazy-first-time-out-my-sailboat-today.html)

Arcb 11-05-2018 12:09 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Adding an electric bilge pump might be a nice addition provided you have the charging and battery capacity to make it count, a lot of boats that size don't. Mine doesn't, and I therefore have no electric pump. Just a portable manual and a bailing can.

As for bailing into the sink, figure a guy who is serious about bailing a boat out is going to be chucking 3/4 of a gallon every 5 seconds. Can your galley sink keep up with that kind of volume? I know on my boat, it would be going out the companionway. The sink is a nice dry place for keys and wallets, if you want to keep it self draining, that's cool. The seacock fix is a nice compromise between the two schools of thought.

The key to keeping a boat afloat is keeping the water on the outside. In your case that probably means fixing up your scuppers and centreboard trunk to work as originally designed. If the boat was originally fitted with an automatic bilge pump, it might be worth replacing, if it wasn't, you might have to drill an extra hole in your boat to fit one...

I am of the school of thought the fewer holes in the boat the better, but in your case, the cockpit drains are critical to the safe functioning of the boat I don't think there is a way around that.

bristol299bob 11-05-2018 12:47 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
I think that smaller boats usually have cockpit drains above the waterline. But yours drain below the waterline as do most larger boats. The cockpit sole is above the waterline, water will flow down the scuppers into the lake. You do not need a "check valve". But it is good practice to install a seacock on every below-the-waterline thruhull.

Consider a few failure modes:
- the boat is overloaded and the cockpit sole drops below the waterline: water will backfill from the lake, through the scupper into the cockpit.
- cracked hose from the thruhull to the scupper: water will flow into the bilge
- hose knocked off of the thruhull: water will flow into the bilge.

You attached pictures of the outside of the scupper and thruhull ... I'd be curious to see a picture from the inside, where the hose connects to the thruhull (apologies if you did already and I missed it)

Same is true of your sink. The sink thruhull is below the waterline and the sink is above the waterline. Water drains out (unless the boat is overloaded so much that the sink drops below the waterline.

I agree with others that suggested you fix this properly vs just "plugging it". it's not hard to fix.

paulinnanaimo 11-05-2018 01:12 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Arcb's method of furiously chucking the water into the cockpit is a bit futile if you have disconnected the scuppers.

Arcb 11-05-2018 01:32 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paulinnanaimo (Post 2051562230)
Arcb's method of furiously chucking the water into the cockpit is a bit futile if you have disconnected the scuppers.

Actually, my method is keeping the water out in the first place. I doubt very many posters here have adequate pumping arrangements to handle prolnged serious flooding at sea.

A good many small yachts have inboard engines with stuffing boxes and are left in the water, often charging on shore power when not in use often for weeks on end. This is very different usage than the typical trailer sailor or dinghy sailor.

paulinnanaimo 11-05-2018 04:52 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Arcb
I know that you would never have a flooded cabin, I was referring to your hypothetical situation only.

Arcb 11-05-2018 05:31 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Paul, totally agree with both your comments. The OPs cockpit scuppers are critical to the boats sewaorthiness. Both from the perspective of dewatering the cockpit and dewatering the cabin (via the companionway).

Maybe I shouldnt quote people when I agree with them ;)

I just dont think the sink is that critical, personally. Also not sure an electric bilge pump is critical. Even high end boats in this size rangelike a Norseboat 21.5 don't come with standard electric bilge pumps.

TakeFive 11-05-2018 05:59 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcb (Post 2051562262)
...Also not sure an electric bilge pump is critical. Even high end boats in this size rangelike a Norseboat 21.5 don't come with standard electric bilge pumps.

As someone who urged OP to install a bilge pump, I never said it should be an electric one. As others pointed out, an electric pump is only as good as the battery powering it.

However, after that OP mentioned possibly keeping the boat in a slip. That makes an automatic electric pump a little more important.

SeaStar58 11-05-2018 06:14 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive (Post 2051562272)
As someone who urged OP to install a bilge pump, I never said it should be an electric one. As others pointed out, an electric pump is only as good as the battery powering it.

However, after that OP mentioned possibly keeping the boat in a slip. That makes an automatic electric pump a little more important.

You should always have a manual means of bailing. Since my boat is a picnic boat with minimal access to the bilge I have a manual pump with a fairly long hose on it so it will be usable through an inspection port if need be along with the plastic bleach bottle scoop however the boat also has full flotation and was designed to be able to sail even if it gets completely swamped. Just shift your crew and passengers as far forward as possible to ensure the rear of the cockpit is above the waterline to ensure the scupper drains the cockpit more quickly. With a little forward motion it works very well to get water taken in after burying the rail during some aggressive fun out on the boat.

In a slip or on a mooring its an automatic electric pump and a solar panel to keep it operating as long as possible. Its no fun to get a call from the Harbor Master telling you your decks are about to be awash and your boat is going down sitting at the mooring.

MikePNJ 11-05-2018 06:28 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
I really appreciate the input everyone.

Now that I understand what is going on with those scuppers, I have no intention of plugging them. It was a knee jerk reaction after having to bail out 150 gallons of water in my driveway. (All while standing up and tossing it over the side from the cabin, lol) I thought it was some kind of drain plug issue that was missing.

Especially since it appears to be a simple hose replacement and proper connection fix. The hardest part will be accessing the damaged hoses behind the lazarettes. I'll snap some photos of the fun. I've got a busy week this week with my business in addition to coaching my sons soccer team and a big tournament next weekend. I hope to tackle it some time next week before it gets cold.

Then to get it wet and inspect the hose fix and centerboard inspection. I'm still on the fence with the sink through hull but can see both sides of the story.

I was thinking of going with a deep cycle marine group 24 battery for the bilge pump. I've also thought about a small solar panel to provide power just for the bilge pump. That's down the road though because I'm either trailer sailing it or dry storage and day sailing for next season.

There is one above water through hull that drains from the anchor locker on the deck. It's a very small Danforth shaped locker. I have 2 Danforths of different sizes but they are too large to stow away with the door closed. I switched to a box anchor and love it for my lake. Catches every time, first attempt.

Mike

Minnewaska 11-05-2018 06:50 PM

Re: Crazy first time out on my sailboat today
 
Good luck. I’m dying to see what connects the drain in the cockpit to the thru hull. If you weren’t spilling water into the cockpit, when you took the pics showing water exiting those thru hulls, then the connection beneath the cockpit and thru hull must be compromised.

However, I find it surprising they were both compromised. There may be more to what’s going on here that we can follow by written description.


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