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post #41 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

With regards to sailing with physical disabilities, there are clubs and sailboats designed specifically for this purpose. I am aware of the Martin 16. 16 ft open boat with a forward seating position, all lines lead to the helm seat, 330 pound lead keel. Very nifty, can be single handed by folks with fairly big mobility challenges, or a crew person can come along as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_16

In terms of tour boats not carrying folks with mobility issues, many decent sized tour boats can accomodate a wheelchair ramp, and many newer ones have made it a consideration in their design specs.

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post #42 of 75 Old 12-06-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

For some sailing may simply be about being in a boat that is sailing. For others it could be racing... for others it includes doing the care and maintenance... for others it is ability to cruise... including night sailing... Obviously your physical abilities will define what you can do... and that is something that DOES decline with age... and usually slowly. The decline may be even hard to notice but at some stage you simply can't do things which were second nature... done without thought and with safety.

Speaking for me and me only... and also one of the reasons I have no interest in chartering... is that sailing to me is the entire living on / with a sailboat experience. And the experience has been making the boat I sail a home and a comfortable environment. That environment is close to nature and this is very different from my life on dirt. There are many great things to do on dirt... museums and trips and concerts and dining and socializing with friends and family.

I lived aboard for about 4 years and realized that as thrilling as those experiences were, I missed the dirt stuff and so now split my time and miss sailing in the off season. Summers without sailing will be very weird for me. I did one because of recovering from surgery. Frustrating and awful. But it made me aware that if I am not physically comfortable sailing and caring for the boat... I will have to adapt and at some point stop.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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post #43 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

By the time many people have the means to go cruising full-time, their failing health prevents them from untying the dock lines. I've seen many dreams broken this way. So when making long-term plans to go cruising, in addition to finding the right boat, making it ready to live aboard and sail offshore, and saving money for the cruising kitty, it's really important that we take care of our health and prepare our bodies for the rigors of sailing offshore. Staying healthy and physically fit will make the sailing more enjoyable and will allow you to keep doing it for many more years.
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post #44 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

I only wish I trusted the yard to do more work. Most of what I do, I simply don't trust them to do. On my haul checklist, I ask to have a thru-hull removed at the base of our mast, so that mast rain water will drain. I only ask them to do it, as I may not be back in time. Sure enough, they forgot. I found 2 inches of water in my bilge, when I returned and had to remove it myself. When I mentioned that they failed to do it, the Manager thought the word "failed" was too harsh. No apology. No sympathy. Just a BS story that it was still on their to-do list, over a month later. He's literally the worst customer service guy.

I just completed a major upgrade myself, after he insisted on doing the job with nuclear force, in contrast to the manufacturers instructions. I'm also having trouble with some screws backing out in my genoa furler. No other issues, just a loctite problem. His recommendation was to replace the entire system.

So, no, paying them won't be an indication of being too old. I would gladly pay twice what I pay today, if I trusted them.


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post #45 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

"You are too old to clean the bottom, you must hire a diver if you wish to keep a keel boat." says the wife.
"Hmmm, I'd rather sail than clean the bottom, OK." says I
I've decided I'd rather sail than wash it every 2 weeks, or wax it, so someone else can make a little change doing that also. And thinking about it, when I was young I worked cleaning boat bottoms and topsides and brightwork to support my sailing habit so seems only fair.
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post #46 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

When ones feels their health or state of mind, attributed to the aging process, no longer enables them to safely participate in the act of sailing.

Or....

If my dang kids won't put rails up on the dock so I can bounce my walker off them on the way to the boat, without ending up in the drink. ;-)
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post #47 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
So, no, paying them won't be an indication of being too old. I would gladly pay twice what I pay today, if I trusted them.
There are good and bad in every trade.

This applies to both customers and service providers.

A boat owner's relationship with their marine service provider is, and should be, on equal footing.
  • The customer supplies the service need.
  • The provider supplies the service skills.

Both determine if they wish to work with the other for a defined exchange of money.

If either is not satisfied with the outcome, it is likely from the lack of their own due diligence.

If you have yet to develop a trusting relationship with any marine service provider, what is the common denominator?
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post #48 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

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Originally Posted by boatsurgeon View Post
There are good and bad in every trade.

This applies to both customers and service providers.

A boat owner's relationship with their marine service provider is, and should be, on equal footing.
  • The customer supplies the service need.
  • The provider supplies the service skills.

Both determine if they wish to work with the other for a defined exchange of money.

If either is not satisfied with the outcome, it is likely from the lack of their own due diligence.

If you have yet to develop a trusting relationship with any marine service provider, what is the common denominator?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this.
A bad owner leaves the service personnel with the cost-free and non-life-threatening options of leaving the job or boat, whereas a poor service provider can cause serious or life-threatening problems for an owner, or the cost of having the poor job done properly.
After several years of using local refer & A/C techs in the VI and having disastrous consequences for my chartering, I ended up flying a tech in from Fla whenever I needed one. Cheaper and better in the long run, especially when the guests are paying upwards of 18 grand a week for an air-conditioned boat!
These days we do all our A/C & refer work ourselves as we just cannot find any competent service providers in that field anywhere in the Caribbean, nor can I afford to fly one down from the states, even if I could find a competent one there, which I doubt.
It's a real PITA, as we must have the gauges, gas and specialized tools aboard for this job. It would be cheaper to pay someone competent rather than purchase and store those things, considering how rarely one needs these units repaired.
We boat owners are at the mercy of the service techs for those jobs we cannot do ourselves, and unfortunately, the internet has not been a great deal of help in weeding out the bad ones. Perhaps this is because so many owners are just clueless these days because they have never had competent techs or yard personnel?

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post #49 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this.
A bad owner leaves the service personnel with the cost-free and non-life-threatening options of leaving the job or boat, whereas a poor service provider can cause serious or life-threatening problems for an owner, or the cost of having the poor job done properly.
After several years of using local refer & A/C techs in the VI and having disastrous consequences for my chartering, I ended up flying a tech in from Fla whenever I needed one. Cheaper and better in the long run, especially when the guests are paying upwards of 18 grand a week for an air-conditioned boat!
These days we do all our A/C & refer work ourselves as we just cannot find any competent service providers in that field anywhere in the Caribbean, nor can I afford to fly one down from the states, even if I could find a competent one there, which I doubt.
It's a real PITA, as we must have the gauges, gas and specialized tools aboard for this job. It would be cheaper to pay someone competent rather than purchase and store those things, considering how rarely one needs these units repaired.
We boat owners are at the mercy of the service techs for those jobs we cannot do ourselves, and unfortunately, the internet has not been a great deal of help in weeding out the bad ones. Perhaps this is because so many owners are just clueless these days because they have never had competent techs or yard personnel?
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

It is not the internet's responsibility to weed out bad service providers any more that it is to weed out bad customers.

On the one hand, I hear some claim "It ain't brain surgery", or "rocket science"; yeah I like that one (even though the work is a craft in a science that is identical to that used on rockets).

And then a few that claim "everything is a matter of life or death". Or that a marine service tech should be as intimately familiar with every aspect of a specific vessel within 15 minutes, as the boater is after 30 years of ownership. But then if the owner doesn't know something they most definitely should, well, they're not the pro.

Seems to flip flop whenever it suits a particular argument.

I agree that an error by a marine electrical tech, an FRP tech, or a diesel tech, could end up being just as fatal as a slip of the knife by a surgeon.

As far as the claim of "no risk to the service provider" well, in my opinion that is just wrong.

Any error a service provider makes runs the risk of damaging their reputation and livelihood.

Not getting paid because an owner is a dead beat.

Invalid warranty claims.

An owner badmouthing a service provider due to the owners own fault.

These are all risks on the part of the service provider. There are many more.

I have to protect myself and my family from a rare bad customer I may accidentally accept.

A good service provider can avoid most of these by screening their prospective clients well, but unfortunately, no matter how careful, every now and again, a bad one will get through. (We have ways of dealing with this, swiftly, professionally, and courteously, like everything else we do.)
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post #50 of 75 Old 12-06-2018
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Re: What does "too old to sail mean"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatsurgeon View Post
.....If you have yet to develop a trusting relationship with any marine service provider, what is the common denominator?
What makes you say that? Are you a service provider? Maybe the one in question, it wouldn't surprise me.

I actually know yards that do a terrific job, but they are quite a long way away. I also have service providers for other avocations that I trust, because they earned it. The Bay is well known for having poor quality, unless you go to the high end Hinckley or Newport Shipyard. I may begin to do just that. If my delivery skipper hadn't passed, I would have already.

In any event, my yard is not fully incompetent. I generally know what they can and can't do. They don't, they just want to rack up the billable hours. As an amateur, I've literally done jobs in half the time their bill says it took their pro. It's ridiculous. Every client in the marina says so. They are poorly managed and the Manager needs some kind of validation, probably because he hasn't accomplished what he thought he was meant to. He has zero customer service skills and no one likes him, they have to deal with him, as he is in control.


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