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post #21 of 130 Old 01-10-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: The Dark Side

We have all that stuff now on a mid size cruiser. Still if all of it fails weíd make out okay. Iíve turned off the power winches when Iíve not trusted crew. Can get by without the AP and rely on the hydrovane. with 200g of water no wm just means going into shore more often. No genset means more energy budgeting (no TV, music, etc.) and total dependence on the wind and solar supplies.
Like to feel weíre still a sailboat though but see where youíre coming from Arch. Agree thereís greater convergence between cruisers on power or sail as regards systems. Expect that will continue.
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post #22 of 130 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: The Dark Side

Outbound,

Your rate of repair/replace seems sort of out of line to me. Or perhaps Iím just out of line.

I replaced allnstanding rigging on our 33 at 30 years. The rigging on our 1985 44í was replaced in 2006, thatís 21 years. I had a professional rig survey done after I replaced the bow sprit in 2015, 9 years, and they said it was good to go, no recommended replacement.

Now part of that might be the rig the 44 has 12 stays plus runners, the 33 has 11 stays with permanent runners. If I loose a wire I should not loose the rig. More modern boats not so much.

Or maybe you are doing a lot more actual sailing than us.

33' Brewer, Murray 33, steel cutter
44' Pape, Steelmaid, cc steel cutter
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post #23 of 130 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: The Dark Side

I would say to thank your lucky stars that you have a woman that embraces the cruising lifestyle regardless of which way that you do it.
There is no "Dark Side" there's only the " Other Side"
If I could sell it all and go to the other side one of the Nordhavens would most likely fit the bill. Of course there's always a dedicated motor sailor as a compromise to consider. You could probably spend the next 2 years just shopping. The really fun part!
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post #24 of 130 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: The Dark Side

Hybrid propulsion would be an interesting option. Not sure if there are any models that would be a good fit. Here is an article:
https://www.passagemaker.com/technic...g-world-hybrid
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post #25 of 130 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: The Dark Side

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B where is that? Was it the ICW? How do you feel about the smaller Flemings?
Stuart FL. Burr Yacht Sales. Fleming Dealer for Southeast. I love the lines. Traditional, not ostentatious.
They power them with Mans or MTUs in the larger models and I think Cummins in the smallest one. Love to see Cat power considered. Construction is superb. Never been offshore on one but a friend owned one and they spoke highly of it's seakeeping ability. They were former sailors who went Dark Side.

They eventually sold it because every time they invited their kids they would bring friends and the wife ended up cooking for ten people or more. She got tired of that real quick. They got a small single screw trawler and stick to the coast nowadays. And no guest cabins. Lol!

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Re: The Dark Side

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These are not alternative to the "sailing experience". All boats float... but that's where the similarity ends. One could argue that you can cruise a trawler and so it easier on the skipper. Hardly. And RV is not analogous except that people cruise the country on roads.

When owning sailing vessel no longer works for you, turn in your deck shoes.... or crew on OPBs.
I fail to understand why you felt the need to write this in counter to my post.

But to address it, to lots of people the end of sailing is NOT the end to boating or traveling!

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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post #27 of 130 Old 01-10-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: The Dark Side

Looked at hybrids. The diesel electric is quite viable. But to allow a 2200nm range you’re looking at new construction. Unfortunately current offerings or a new one off make it way out of budget. On a budgetary basis the current crop of ultra narrow pure diesel power cruisers make better sense on first look. Much less complexity cheaper to run even if fuel costs increase. The pitfalls of a narrow hull seem mostly solved with the advances in gyro stabilization, magnus effect stabilization or the refined fins on conventional stabilizers. Those technologies have come a long way.
The comment about vessel cost has support in my preliminary looking around. At projected budget new is probably off the board. Used doesn’t allow these new technologies except as add ons which doesn’t make sense except for nav, solar and like upgrades. Research to date suggests ~$300k range if we go real old and unfortunately $5-600k range for newer. Otherwise will have to give up snow birding to eastern Caribbean. Expect the usual hit when current boat sells so there are definite budgetary limitations which put us below the range for the “ideal” boat.
Most of the boats mentioned above list in the $5-700k range for recent models which is really pushing it for us and will make us boat poor so again not probably not doable. .
The big break in power boat prices seems much the same as in sailboat prices. Once you go to a fairly recent quality long term live aboard ocean boat the prices skyrocket. The market is small enough and initial costs high enough that people will wait to get close to their ask.

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post #28 of 130 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: The Dark Side

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The big break in power boat prices seems much the same as in sailboat prices. Once you go to a fairly recent quality long term live aboard ocean boat the prices skyrocket. The market is small enough and initial costs high enough that people will wait to get close to their ask.
I suspect at that some price points the owners don't feel any real urgency to sell and just want their price.

I knew of a guy who was loosing a million a month due to purchasing a bad investment. Rather than getting rid of it and taking the loss and facing the loss of face at the golf club, he hung onto it for quite a while until he was able to sell it for a sale price profit. People knew what he bought and sold it for but didn't know about his monthly losses.

For some people, money has a different meaning.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
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post #29 of 130 Old 01-10-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: The Dark Side

Interesting but it doesnít for me. Donít have that kind of wealth. View money as a tool not for just having it in the abstract. No longer working and still would like to leave kids/grandkids something so need to make reasonable decisions.
Curious anyone here has done passages on powerboats. Was it uncomfortable due to motion? Boring as all get out? Tiring due to mechanical noises? Or pleasantly relaxing?
My experience has been day or few day trips on various different types of trawlers with a few coastal fairly decent one wayhop deliveries many years ago. The deliveries were on Grand Banks which arenít under consideration. Nice boats but donít have the range and I view them as somewhat lighter than wanted semi displacement. Same reason the various production tugs arenít being considered. They are as cute as can be though.

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post #30 of 130 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: The Dark Side

Many, slightly bigger, but not by much. Working boats, but they are the designs that have inspired the recreational trawlers, tugs and power cats.

Power boats are awesome. The humb of the machinery luls you to sleep at night. You dont need to be bored on watch because they take care of themselves. You are indoors. Set up a little table and play solitaire or listen to an audiobook in climate controlled comfort. No heeling, bright salons. Fast passages, no need to chase the weather, follow the rhumb line.

Personally sail mostly for the sport, power boats are a great way to get around. Not sure I would want one for transoceanic, but I cant think of any small recreational boat I would want for transoceanic.

Funny, since you started this thread, I think I have talked my wife into a houseboat. Which wasnt hard. Spending a month at a time on a 21 ft sharpie with 2 kids is enough to make any one want a houseboat.

We have been looking at designs. We dont need long distance passagemakers as that isnt our boating style. Looking at little canal boat style boats.
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