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post #91 of 142 Old 03-23-2019
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

I have noted that nobody has identified how anyone can keep their boat on station to windward under power, and leave the helm to assist with MOB recovery.

I believe my question has been answered.

Thank you.
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post #92 of 142 Old 03-23-2019
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatsurgeon View Post
I have noted that nobody has identified how anyone can keep their boat on station to windward under power, and leave the helm to assist with MOB recovery.

I believe my question has been answered.

Thank you.

I will call you out.

You are just blind to the answer.

Indeed you are blind to any answer or opinion that is not your own. As someone alluded, it's time for you to open your shutters and not be afraid to learn better techniques.

Sailing is one of those things that you can keep learning no matter how old you are.

One of my sailing mentors who is 92 just won a Dragon championship against 26 competitors... But his learning ability was shown at the late age of 84 when he started racing a 470!

https://afloat.ie/sail/sailing-class...ion-for-us-all

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post #93 of 142 Old 03-23-2019
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
I will call you out.

You are just blind to the answer.

Indeed you are blind to any answer or opinion that is not your own. As someone alluded, it's time for you to open your shutters and not be afraid to learn better techniques.

Sailing is one of those things that you can keep learning no matter how old you are.

One of my sailing mentors who is 92 just won a Dragon championship against 26 competitors... But his learning ability was shown at the late age of 84 when he started racing a 470!

https://afloat.ie/sail/sailing-class...ion-for-us-all
I am not blind.

I am begging anyone to provide the answer.

Enough with the name calling, mud slinging, irrelevant links, and disrespectful banter.

Simple question.

How do you hold the boat on station in heavy weather conditions during MOB recovery with nobody at the helm?
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post #94 of 142 Old 03-23-2019
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatsurgeon View Post
I am not blind.

I am begging anyone to provide the answer.

Enough with the name calling, mud slinging, irrelevant links, and disrespectful banter.

Simple question.

How do you hold the boat on station in heavy weather conditions during MOB recovery with nobody at the helm?
Heaving to isnt station keeping either, the drift rate of a person in the water isnt the same as the drift rate of a hove to sailboat. You are asking the wrong questions.

Heaving to involves surrendering active control of the vessel. Maintaining active control of the vessel (sail or power) may allow you to bring the boat to the person.

Try it some time, dont use a fender that you forgot to tie down before going out in snotty conditions, but make an active atempt to simulate the drift rate of the person. Do it 10 times on the same day, same conditions, try different approaches; active control under power, active control under sail, using the hove to and drift method if you chose. Then you will have an idea of what worked best that day on your boat in those conditions.
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

You conveniently skipped the question of how one will ever heave-to alone, with the main sheet 12 feet from the helm. Your experience seems to be on smaller boats. You only insist your own loaded (ie false premise) question be answered. With a lifesling, you circle the victim (or pass upwind and drift down), they attach themselves and there is no station to maintain and the victim never gets close to a spinning prop. Your question was loaded. You are, in fact, blind to the various scenarios. Then again, you've never been in the situation, as you say.

Our boat will heave to, with a reefed genoa and the main slack, but those lines are 12 feet away too. It will not heave to, with our 150 genoa wrapped around the stays. All the while one is screwing with those lines, with the helm on AP, you're sailing away from the victim. I maintain my position. Immediately turn directly into the wind. Stop the damn boat within a short distance from the victim and turn the engine on. Then determine the best course of action, which will differ based upon conditions, point of sail, number of remaining crew, etc. It will be to motor the vast majority of the time. Just like a motor boat would, just like one would if the sails were not raised.

The fact is, if you lose someone overboard in 10 foot steep seas and 35 kt winds (especially any condition that could knock one's boat down), you're not getting them back aboard alone, no matter what you do. You'll probably never even see them again. Even in a quick stop, you'll be several wave sets away. Gone.
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Last edited by Minnewaska; 03-23-2019 at 06:26 AM.
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

BS in my replies to you I gave you a series of real world scenarios when hoving too would be impossible in a timely fashion or grossly inappropriate. Others have confirmed these statements and supplemented them with their own. You never addressed them as they inarguably demonstrate the fallacy of your thinking. If you think is not the case please respond to how you believe hoving too is the correct response in those scenarios. Failure to do so shows unequivocally that hoving to is rarely if ever the appropriate response .

Btw when successfully hoving to I would be forced to take my eyes off the MOB for a longer period of time then with a quick stop then engine. It has always required some adjustments to main and jib sheet while watching the sails and glances at the knot meter and water.

It is quite clear BSs technique is believed to be ineffectual and inappropriate by many sailors for clear and obvious reasons to which he doesn’t address but rather resorts to name calling. Can we move on.

Every poster has repeated the mantra “don’t fall off the boat “. That implies the use of tethers with the inherent risk you will be strung on your tether over the side off the boat. Some say given the high risk of drowning the victim should quick release and become a mob. Others say you should manipulate to face aft and wait to be hauled in with a spare halyard. Consensus seems to be a quick stop by the helmsman is appropriate to prevent drowning.
Have others thought about this? What action plan have you decided on?
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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
.....That implies the use of tethers with the inherent risk you will be strung on your tether over the side off the boat. Some say given the high risk of drowning the victim should quick release and become a mob. Others say you should manipulate to face aft and wait to be hauled in with a spare halyard......
While each deck is different, I think one can position the jackline more toward the center and use short enough tethers to prevent the ability to get over the lifeline. At the least, to prevent reaching the water. Of course,, it's not always possible, but I've never understood those that run a single line the entire length of their side deck. It's just a placebo.

In the cockpit, I tie a line around the base of our table and we 3 ft tether to it. It allows complete freedom around the cockpit and both helms. However, it's a strain to get your head over the rail, let alone your body. That's the way I like it. Of course, it made barfing on my mid-night watch last summer a bit difficult. First mal de mar in a long time, but conditions were particularly nasty.


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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

BS I’ll make it easy for you
1. Boats under double headsails and no main, or genny and no main or main on preventor and headsail on a pole.
2. Boat is hoved too but not close enough to throw a lifesling or other device.
3. Person fell off during an evolution. Tacking, gybing or deploying a large downwind sail (kite,parasailor, code).
4. Boat is motor sailing.
Please address how hoving too is a viable technique.? A quick stop, throw off the sheets (and/or halyards) turn on the engine is. Period. End of discussion. This bird is dead. Of course you hit the mob button and release the MOM first.

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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

Sounds like you’ve put some rational thinking in to it. We have four strong points in the cockpit. Two are at the ends of one of the long seats. We run dyneema line between them pulled tight and clip to that. Allows access to all lines and winches. We have a single wheel with strong points on either side near the sole. Shorter people clip to those. Taller clip to the split backstay just above the hydraulic cyclinder for backstay adjustments.
We do run webbing from bow cleat to stern cleat. I insist if used one always goes up the high side ( usually windward). If working at the mast then clip to the granny bars. If working at the bow then the anchor chain or base of one of the headsail stays.this is true even if going to the low side and it means going around the mast or sneaking under the boom. Of course one uses the shortest tether feasible. Our lines are brought aft. They are under some tension and left clutched. They serve as places to clip as well. Our clips are bigger then most of our ss tubing. Same holds. Use them when appropriate. In short have been taught to think about always clipping to something to the high side and with shortest tether. Importantly don’t limit yourself to the webbing and never use the lifelines.
Still, sh-t happens. What’s your plan if someone goes over on a tether?

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Re: Man Overboard equipment and procedures

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Originally Posted by boatsurgeon View Post
If the wind conditions are such that the foresail can safely be up close-hauled, the boat can be safely hove to with it.

So the limit is (variation depending on boat) ~ 15 knots for 150%, +/-, 20 knots for a 135%, 25 knots for a 120%, 30 knots for 100%, (hank on or furled) 40 knots for the storm jib.

If it can be close-hauled (even with terrible sail shape) and it can be backwinded, it can be hove to.

And the boat and crew will be far better for it.

Basic seamanship.
You don't get to choose your wind speed/sail configuration in a MOB situation, or at least most people don't. Are you proposing backwinding a 150 in ANY case on any boat or must one completely change tactics by your little chart above? You can't have it both ways.

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