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post #141 of 213 Old 02-25-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

But there's the problem. NIMBYism raises its head, and the local constabulary is sent in to bust some heads and chase all these undesirables out. So they go ... where? As you say, they're in your cove because they've been chased out of other places. Where do they go next?

Most of the people are living in this way because they don't believe they have better choices. I bet most are low to poverty-level income. So a real solution would be to raise social supports and institute a real living wage so people can afford to live where they work.

Oh wait ... that's so much harder than just chasing them away. As long as we on the right side of the economic line don't have to be bothered with these people, then all is fine.
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post #142 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

You are making the assumption that they are poor people. I don't think that is necessarily true. Certainly it is a cheap way to live, and yes, it is an expensive city to live in, but that doesn't mean they have the right to make that public space their home any more than somebody has a right to park their motorhome in a public park and make it their permanent residence. It also is not fair that a couple of boats in the area have gone through proper channels, paid for a water lease, and paid to have a proper mooring installed, yet these people feel they don't have to follow the same rules. (Not all the boats are liveaboards, some are just storing their boats there)

Some of them came to a public meeting on the subject recently, and they never claimed it was their only option, or that they had no other choice. They simply argued that they had a right to be there, but it was made clear by the authorities that they do NOT have that right. The biggest issue is overlapping jurisdictions, and which level of government was willing to step up and deal with the problem.

In this case the proposed solution that is in the works is to ban long term anchoring. Apparently having those boats anchored there long term with their chains dragging across the ocean floor is doing serious damage to the ecology.

Instead of anchors there will be a number of permanent moorings installed that are available to the public for short term (max 1 week I believe) for a fee. That way the limited space is available for everyone to enjoy rather than just a few.

I think that is a perfectly reasonable solution. I'm sure they don't like it...too bad. There are marinas that allow liveaboards. If they want to live aboard their boats in a major urban center close to all the amenities they should pay their way like everyone else.

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post #143 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

I am curious as to why you think you, or anyone for that matter owns the water. Is it only for wealthy people who own nice looking boats?

I can understand if they were criminals, breaking the law. ( this of course excludes some bogus law created to get rid of them) . Are they breaking laws? I can understand if they were caught dumping their excrement. It appears by your description that they may be an eyesore because they don’t have an expensive boat. Hope that’s not the case.

Where do you draw the line? People in Georgia have been prohibited from anchoring in many areas because some of the landowners feel it ruins their expensive view. There is a thread running on that here now. Laws restricting water access can go amuck easily. Especially if they are designed To target a “class” of people. The laws there are so restrictive as to ban people from many large swatch’s of water, no matter how wealthy they are.

Your analogy about the public park refers to a definable property. Water by it’s very nature is not definable. Not sure what body of water this is, but many tidal estuaries have variable boundaries defined by riparian rights ( land ownership) . A distinction is drawn about land ownership vs the water. The end of land ownership being a high/ low tide line. Prevents a land owner from laying claim the the water.

There have been many legal battles fought over municipalities/ states rights on waterways.

Not trying to be argumentative just saying there may be another way of looking at this situation from another viewpoint like maybe the long term anchored. Your solution that acceptable to you would not be to them. There is another point of view here.
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post #144 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

Most cruiser nets down in the Caribbean have a section called “safety and security “. Most of the reports are about dinghy thefts. Although some islands have a rep of being particularly bad it seems endemic.
Had opportunity to chat with local law enforcement officers bending their elbows. Recovery rate is low. Arrests of perps even lower. But what surprised me was the universal opinion that many dinghy thefts were done by “boat scum”. These low life cruisers would steal a dinghy. Remove the engine. Sail to the next island and sell it via the “treasures of the bilge” section of that islands cruiser net. The cops believed that that was how some of these boat scum kept themselves fed. Dinghy and petty theft from other cruisers.
We spend time in St.Vincent, St.Lucia and southern bays of Grenada. These are considered hotspots for dinghy theft. Used to use cable to lock up. Have switched to chain after talking with the cops. Cable is light and easy. Chain a PIA.
Also pay close attention to the condition of the boats in an anchorage. Avoid like the plague sections where the boats look funky. Or I’m in reasonable swimming distance from shore. Ideal spot is near other cruisers with well maintained boats. Don’t care about size or make. Just care that the boats kept up.

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post #145 of 213 Old 02-26-2020 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat People Scum

Some of you are going off the rails and climbing on your soapbox to preach social injustices.

I just want boaters to clean the trash etc off their boats. To me it seems this is possible no matter what social level a boater is.

But it isnt, because some boaters are boat people scum SCUM. They are a problem to the regular boat scum.

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post #146 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

SchockT: I don't know the specifics of your situation, so I can't say what is happening here. I do know that, in general, people don't choose to live in substandard conditions. They do so when they don't see they have any other better choices. Instead of simply chasing them off, why not try and address the real causes?

... Unless all we care about is our own backyard.

Chef is absolutely correct. The gentrification of water vistas is a serious problem, and one that should be resisted. And all too often the laws are written by those of us with wealth and power to benefit us. The "scum" usually lack both wealth and power.

Don: As I said, if it bothers you so much, why not go help these people clean up their boats? Dinghy over. Offer to take their trash. Clearly you have some free time on your hands, and also clearly it is you who is bothered by the situation.

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post #147 of 213 Old 02-26-2020 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat People Scum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Don: As I said, if it bothers you so much, why not go help these people clean up their boats? Dinghy over. Offer to take their trash. Clearly you have some free time on your hands, and also clearly it is you who is bothered by the situation.
You know what? I find this continued holy bs just a load of crap! You are always writing crap like this like you are some more a moral type of person than others.

Tell me preachy man, besides posting on forums what are you actively doing to help people?

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post #148 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
You know what? I find this continued holy bs just a load of crap! You are always writing crap like this like you are some more a moral type of person than others.

Tell me preachy man, besides posting on forums what are you actively doing to help people?
Wow, someone got out of bed grumpy.

Since you're the one always complaining about others, I'm simply suggesting YOU do something, instead of just whining like some little spoiled child.
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post #149 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

You are a funny man. I try and like you, but you make it so hard...
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post #150 of 213 Old 02-26-2020
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Re: Boat People Scum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
SchockT: I don't know the specifics of your situation, so I can't say what is happening here. I do know that, in general, people don't choose to live in substandard conditions. They do so when they don't see they have any other better choices. Instead of simply chasing them off, why not try and address the real causes?



... Unless all we care about is our own backyard.



Chef is absolutely correct. The gentrification of water vistas is a serious problem, and one that should be resisted. And all too often the laws are written by those of us with wealth and power to benefit us. The "scum" usually lack both wealth and power.



Don: As I said, if it bothers you so much, why not go help these people clean up their boats? Dinghy over. Offer to take their trash. Clearly you have some free time on your hands, and also clearly it is you who is bothered by the situation.
In this particular case the liveaboards are only part of the problem, it is also people anchoring their boats in the Cove as a cheap place to store them. Some of those ARE eyesores, and every windstorm it seems one of them drags or breaks loose and ends up on the beach or bashing on someone's dock. Those boats then become the taxpayers/homeowners problem as SOMEBODY has to pay to repair the damage they cause and haul the wrecks off the beach, not to mention the environmental impact.

The liveaboards are another part of the problem. One guy has an old powerboat, and he appears to also own a couple of the other boats anchored in the area. The suspicion is that he is buying old boats and flipping them. That particular guy has also caused at least one large oil slick in the Cove when he pumped the bilge off his boat.

Another boat, the one with the family living on it, appears to be running a business taking people on boat rides on their "pirate ship". It's not actually a bad looking old wood boat. One summer afternoon the public dock was very busy so they tried to land on our docks to offload their passengers. When it was explained to them that they could not dock because it is private they got very belligerent and unloaded a stream of profanities at us.

These are not poverty stricken people just trying to get by. They are people who have made a lifestyle choice.

Certainly there is an element of nimby-ism involved. The Cove is a beautiful area, and people pay millions of dollars for homes there, but it is also one of the most popular recreational areas in the region, used by thousands of residents and tourists.

These people have decided to lay claim to a patch of this little area to make it their home,and in one case a used boat business, and in doing so they are having a negative impact on the environment, the water quality, and other people's enjoyment of the waters, as well as preventing visiting boats from being able to visit because they have permanently occupied the limited anchoring space. They are also posing a hazard to navigation because none of them display anchor lights, (or lights of any kind) at night.

It seems to me THEY are the ones being selfish, not the residents of the area.

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