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post #81 of 126 Old 04-26-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

My wife and I recently went into a police station and asked if we could toss our 2 pint cans of beer we were just finishing into their bin. No problems. I believe the reception would have been different had I asked an officer in the States.

C'est la vie!
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post #82 of 126 Old 04-26-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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My wife and I recently went into a police station and asked if we could toss our 2 pint cans of beer we were just finishing into their bin. No problems. I believe the reception would have been different had I asked an officer in the States.

C'est la vie!
was it craft beer?



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post #83 of 126 Old 04-26-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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was it craft beer?

Sorry, no. I'm too cheap.
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post #84 of 126 Old 04-26-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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Sorry, no. I'm too cheap.
some would say 'cheap' others would say boat scum

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post #85 of 126 Old 04-27-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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Such conflicts are simply prevented by the service being provided to boaters by the government. If some mechanism can provide for some level of "fair" user-pays, great, but if not, should not mean government creating such issues by just abandoning its responsibilities.

In that case, it would seem like boaters should pay for it via something like a cruising tax. Much like homeowners pay property tax, and have their refuse collected. If someone uses the refuse collection that someone else is paying for, is that not an imposition of sorts? The problem, really, is that sometimes there is simply no other option, and not many of us think of garbage disposal as something we should have to pay for.

Another option would be that part of the price you pay for a product should be a tax that covers disposal of that item. Pre-paid, as it were. Then you are simply returning the packaging in a way you've already paid for.

Yet another option would be to tax industry based on how disposable their packaging is. I have noticed that some vendor-packaging is significantly stupid, as it's designed in such a way that efficient recycling is impossible.
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post #86 of 126 Old 04-27-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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In that case, it would seem like boaters should pay for it via something like a cruising tax. Much like homeowners pay property tax, and have their refuse collected. If someone uses the refuse collection that someone else is paying for, is that not an imposition of sorts? The problem, really, is that sometimes there is simply no other option, and not many of us think of garbage disposal as something we should have to pay for.

Another option would be that part of the price you pay for a product should be a tax that covers disposal of that item. Pre-paid, as it were. Then you are simply returning the packaging in a way you've already paid for.


Yet another option would be to tax industry based on how disposable their packaging is. I have noticed that some vendor-packaging is significantly stupid, as it's designed in such a way that efficient recycling is impossible.

I think before you answer the question, one has to decide

do you want boat scum coming to your area?

I live in the Adirondacks and was talking to a tourism woman and she made an interesting point.

"at our docks, trailheads ... we have signs, pack it in, pack it out, but do we expect them to pack it alway way back to New Jersey?"

She said that because at all the boat launches and trailheads there were no trash receptacles. Part of that the most of the towns in the area had just stopped trash pick up and they didn't want the local (boat scum) to use public trash cans for personal use.

Indirectly she was saying, should we make trash disposal available if we want people to come here?

Much of that trash (trail snacks and beverages) may have been purchased in New Jersey... but some was purchased locally, but either way... it was sending a message: "we don't want your business here."

To some extent, boat scum aside, when I go to New Jersey I hope there is a place to put my trash, especially if I created it and likely bought it in New Jersey, but even if I did not.

In the next 25 years, we have gone from no public garbage cans to many around the area. Much of that is because we are a tourist destination and we want people to feel welcomed. Not just with a place to put their trash, but if you don't have trash cans, many people will just liter.

I wonder if the boat scum lady would be any less upset if the garbage was just tossed somewhere, like her yard.

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Last edited by titustiger27; 04-27-2019 at 05:38 PM.
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post #87 of 126 Old 04-27-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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Originally Posted by titustiger27 View Post

I think before you answer the question, one has to decide

do you want boat scum coming to your area?

...

I wonder if the boat scum lady would be any less upset if the garbage was just tossed somewhere, like her yard.

I think most people think of boaters as not really bringing all that much money into their area.

And the fact that people might mention that an alternative is throwing garbage into someone's yard may be part of the reason why. Landlubbers are going to be landlubbers. They're not seeing it from a boater's perspective. You're right, of course, that if a locality doesn't provide a useful alternative, such as garbage disposal near a marina or dinghy dock, they're presenting boaters with bad options. Boaters then look even worse.

Buying groceries in an area probably isn't enough value added for most people to think of boating as "income producing". A lot of people, right or wrong, think of boating as a cheaper alternative to land-based housing near the water.

In the Adirondacks, sure, hikers are big business. Most coastal areas make a LOT more money if you drive there, stay in hotels, and eat in restaurants.
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post #88 of 126 Old 04-27-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

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Originally Posted by gulfsail View Post
I think most people think of boaters as not really bringing all that much money into their area.

And the fact that people might mention that an alternative is throwing garbage into someone's yard may be part of the reason why. Landlubbers are going to be landlubbers. They're not seeing it from a boater's perspective. You're right, of course, that if a locality doesn't provide a useful alternative, such as garbage disposal near a marina or dinghy dock, they're presenting boaters with bad options. Boaters then look even worse.

Buying groceries in an area probably isn't enough value added for most people to think of boating as "income producing". A lot of people, right or wrong, think of boating as a cheaper alternative to land-based housing near the water.

In the Adirondacks, sure, hikers are big business. Most coastal areas make a LOT more money if you drive there, stay in hotels, and eat in restaurants.

I would guess that many of the hikers here do NOT bring much money to the area... there are the young hikers who probably spend a week in the woods and maybe eat at a restaurant when they get out and there are the busloads of hikers (often from Canada) who drop at a trailhead, climb and then head home.

but if they leave garbage laying around, then the families of four who do spend money in the area won't find the place very welcoming. And you can't really say one can't come and the others can.

My guess it would be similar with cruising sailors, most who only go to the grocery store, maybe buy some fuel, but don't eat or drink out. Then there are the others who spend lots of money, but if you chase away one, you kind of chase away both.

I agree with you about where the money comes from, but you just don't want to start chasing people away... though some think it is okay (when I first moved here, convenience stores sold little cards that said: "tourist hunting license"), I am not sure the visitors to the area found it as funny as the cashier at the store.


I don't know what most thought in the original post, but my first thought was: "doesn't sound like a great place to visit." by land or sea.

In the Adks there is a discussion going on is the place welcoming to people of color. I think for the most part it is, but if you go visit a place and there is one truck driving around (or window) with a confederate flag... you wouldn't agree with that.

Discussion on the public radio facebook site is not especially good... there are people saying there are racists (and there are) and then the racists are saying, we aren't that racist.

If you looked at that conversation, you might question a visit regardless of your color.

How many places are prosperous enough they can say no to boat scum?



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post #89 of 126 Old 04-27-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat People Scum

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Originally Posted by titustiger27 View Post

Indirectly she was saying, should we make trash disposal available if we want people to come here?

For the most part 100% of the money I spend is in the local community that I happen to be at.



I wonder if the boat scum lady would be any less upset if the garbage was just tossed somewhere, like her yard.
I doubt it as I picked up trash along the road the whole from where I landed my dinghy to the store that deposited the trash into a trash can (bin). I'm sure she would have preferred to look atthe trash on the road than the boat trash picking it up and putting in the proper trash receptacle.

Some one also mentioned that people don't see boaters as contributors to the community, only as people "taking". Yet I'm spending my money everywhere I go and not using any other "service" other that common user things like the trash/roads. I'm not using schools or any other services, but still the local community gets the the indirect money I spend from the businesses etc. I spend them at while there in the form of the local taxes of the businesses I supported while there.

In this case, Publix grocery store, is getting $300k plus of business from cruisers. I'm not even expecting services from the local community, all I'm expecting is that Publix accepts (and they do) my common household type of trash.

Yet the old lady shopper looked at me in my nice clean clothes that looked the same as everyone else there as scum, just because I put a small of trash INTO THE TRASH CAN!

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
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post #90 of 126 Old 04-27-2019
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Re: Boat People Scum

That whole neoliberal "user pays" ideology is BS

Just try to make the tax burden fair across the population

and provide the obviously justified public services across the board as efficiently as possible.

I mean, all the sparsely populated States are deeply subsidized by the 82% of the US population that live in urban areas.

So what, who cares?

And the huge boondoggles that go to corporate welfare, giveaways to the rich and war-mongering!

Why even waste time talking about rubbish removal from areas used by the public?

Sheesh. . .
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