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Help Select a New Electronics Package

4K views 44 replies 7 participants last post by  colemj 
#1 ·
Shiva is going on 35 years young and still have some of her original B&G instruments which are working fine... but getting long in the tooth as they say. Some of my instruments are networked with NMEA 183 but it's time to go to an N2K system. I am not crazy about the Ray C80 (at nav desk) and a bought a B&G T7 for my cockpit plotter. I am thinking about a Zeus 3 to take the place of the old T7 which will move to the nav desk and be on the network. Cockpit dash will be rid of the 6 - 4x4 B&G displays and a KVH sail comp and be replaced with perhaps 4 B&G Tritons. Of course a new wind instrument... wired is a PITA to install,,, but how good are the wireless ones? Then a new radar and network in an AIS B and the VHF DSC.

The KVH will remain and provide compass info in NMEA 183 output as will the GX2200 VHF

The Tritons set to the following defaults (if possible):

Triton #1 - DEPTH - COMPASS Heading
Triton #2 - BOAT SPEED (transducer and perhaps SOG)
Triton #3 - WIND - TRUE, APPARENT, GRAPHIC
Triton #4 - GPS - SOG, COG, CTW, XTE, DTW, TTG

I can change the page of course. I want the displays easily readable from the helm... although I usually am positioned close to the companionway when sailing. I hand steer to and from the dock and mooring or to anchor.

The new Zeus3 will be in the same coach roof winch under the dodger.

Does anyone one have experience with these B&G, comments, suggestions???
What about Furuno or Garmin?

This is not an evolutionary step but a whole new system... N2K which I have no experience with.

When it's done I will have some old perfectly working electronics to give or sell.

Give me your best shot!
 
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#4 ·
We have had the Tritons since they first appeared many years ago. Just bought 3 more for the new boat. The way you want to set them up is easy to do - and you have many more options than those you list. One of my favorites is a page containing dual scrolling graphs of wind speed and direction (true or apparent - your choice).

We also have a KVH compass on this boat, but it is going to be dedicated to a backup autopilot, and replaced with a 9-axis N2K compass for main navigation and AP. If you want to continue to use it for the N2K instruments, you will either need a converter like the Actisense, or go through a chartplotter that can do the conversion. If you are getting a Vesper AIS, it might do the 0183-2000 conversion also. I know it converts both of those to 0183 wifi output, but I'm not sure it converts them internally on both buses.

We chose Furuno for the chartplotters on both boats. Not so much for the plotter, but for the radar. Furuno's radar is heads above anyone else's consumer radars, and for us, radar is more important than the chartplotter. Having said that, Furuno's chartplotter is very functional, and extremely rugged. I just don't appreciate chartplotters much at all because they all remind me of using 10-15yr old computers. We do all our planning on a computer, and use the chartplotter just for a display in the cockpit (when it isn't being dedicated to radar).

The new boat currently has a Garmin chartplotter and radar. The display of the charts is very good, and it is relatively easy to use, but I hate it. Once one wants to dive just a bit deeper below skin level on it, there is nothing there. It is truly made for people to just slap on the dash and go - assuming that that will be all the functionality or adjustment they will ever want.

I stay away from Raymarine because I boycott companies that refuse to adopt standards. When I see what RM owners need to do to step out of being locked into RM for adding on a separate piece of gear, as well as all the converters, etc they need just to operate their RM gear itself, it reinforces why I don't buy Raymarine gear.

I too am in the middle of a refit and will have a Garmin 7212 plotter and HD radar for sale, along with lots of Raymarine ST60 stuff. I also have a brand new, unused Simrad Precision 9 nine-axis NMEA2000 rate compass that will be for sale.

Mark
 
#5 · (Edited)
I am aware of the flexibility of the Tritons... but I don't want to spending time pressing buttons and viewing data. I don't do route planning or need or want waypoint libraries... The chart plotter is just a screen to show where the boat is, depths and display AIS and RADAR... My AP which is simple and reliable does not display compass info so I want a "readable" fluxgate compass and I have the KVH which will do... even if it's not the latest and greatest. The compass info will be displayed on the Tritons and the plotter.

No Raymarine so the plotter will be B&G, Furuno or Garmin... and the determinant may be the charts. B&G has their sail steer making their plotter a sailboat friendly one.

I have a few multi function features on some of my cockpit displays which gives me choices of data to view. The alternative is to have more instruments or instruments with readable multi lines of data... which I think the Trintons have. Also I don't need a terribly large screen as I am viewing the plotter from close range... not across a cockpit. I will look at the Furunos as I know they have a great rep for radars and that is another thing will will drive the MFD selection.
Not a biog fan of touch screen only devices either.
 
#8 ·
Guess I wasn't clear about the Tritons. I was trying to say that they can be set up exactly how you listed you wanted them. You wouldn't have to push buttons or go to different screen pages - all the data you wanted can be set up permanently the way you listed it, and they will always display these data.

Again, you will need a NMEA0183-2000 converter to get the KVH compass data on the rest of the instrumentation. You could probably wire it to the chartplotter's 0183 interface, and then have the chartplotter put it on the 2000 bus. I recommend having it directly on the 2000 bus using a converter instead. That way you don't need the chartplotter active just to have compass data.

The Tritons have SailSteer, so you will already have it. I thought I would really like this functionality, but after playing with it, I find it a bit annoying and not as useful as I had hoped. I wouldn't base a plotter decision on it.

Furuno plotters use both CMap and Navionics raster and vector, along with NOAA raster and Vector, and also some specialty charts like fishing charts and another type that escapes me, but isn't really used by sailors. It comes with all charts preloaded, and you buy unlock codes for the ones you want. The US NOAA charts are all free. To give an idea of pricing, we bought the CMap Caribbean for $250. This covers the from Florida, the Gulf of Mexico, Bahamas, Eastern Caribe, North part of South America, Central America, and the Pacific coast from the top of South America to San Diego. I think it may have the widest choices of charts among the manufacturers.

However, the Furuno is a touch screen device. They sell a little control pad with it that has buttons and stuff on it, and can control the whole plotter. They also have a phone/tablet app that can control the plotter. I also wasn't a fan of touch screens, and still have some doubts, but we just spent 3 months sailing this new boat with a Garmin touch screen and it worked out just fine. In fact, it seemed more natural. I spent 3 months with a Furuno touch screen and that was also fine - but it was in a trawler pilot house and not in a sailboat cockpit. I still have hesitations, but we have a new Furuno touch screen waiting to be installed, so I guess that horse has left the barn...

Again, there is no consumer radar as good as the Furuno - and that is why we have a Furuno touchscreen plotter now, even though I have trepidations about it. We just delivered our boat 2,000nm with a current Garmin radar, and I have much experience with the B&G radar, and I am horrified how bad they are in comparison. I have no experience with Raymarine's radar. All manufacturer's radars will show you boat targets in general, but if you want ARPA, true motion, complete tunability and tweaking, and other more advanced functions, then Furuno is the only game in town. If you want to see squalls, and track them, don't go for the broadband offerings (even Furuno's).

Mark

Mark
 
#6 ·
Hey,

It sounds like you will have a great system.

I have never used Furuno so can't comment from experience. Their plotters seem oriented to fisherman and power boaters.

I have used Garmin, Raymarine, and B&G. Since you are not interested in Raymarine I will only discuss Garmin and B&G. IMHO there is not that much difference between the two. B&G was the first to offer sailing specific features like SailSteer. Since then Garmin has added the same functionality. I haven't used the Garmin version but it looks fine on the webpages. I suspect there is really very little difference between the two.

Both have new wind instruments.

I use Navioncs charts on my B&G plotter. Garmin owns Navionics, so I strongly suspect that a Zeus running Navionics will look very similar to a Garmin running Bluechart.

If you plan on keeping the Triton display I would go with B&G just to keep it in the same family. If you plan on getting new displays then I would go with whoever is cheaper.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#7 ·
Hey,

It sounds like you will have a great system.

I have never used Furuno so can't comment from experience. Their plotters seem oriented to fisherman and power boaters.

I have used Garmin, Raymarine, and B&G. Since you are not interested in Raymarine I will only discuss Garmin and B&G. IMHO there is not that much difference between the two. B&G was the first to offer sailing specific features like SailSteer. Since then Garmin has added the same functionality. I haven't used the Garmin version but it looks fine on the webpages. I suspect there is really very little difference between the two.

Both have new wind instruments.

I use Navioncs charts on my B&G plotter. Garmin owns Navionics, so I strongly suspect that a Zeus running Navionics will look very similar to a Garmin running Bluechart.

If you plan on keeping the Triton display I would go with B&G just to keep it in the same family. If you plan on getting new displays then I would go with whoever is cheaper.

Good luck,
Barry
Everything will be new... so no commitments yet. Only KVH compass will remain as I see no reason to get another compass. I had a brief experience with the Triton and it looked great... so no experience with Furuno or Garmins. I DON'T want a touch screen only interface for the plotter. And radars don't offer inter operability...so the plotter choice determines to radar or the other way round.
 
#9 ·
Thanks Mark... I have a Brookehouse MUX which I think converts 183 to 2000.... but when I actually buy a system... I will cross that bridge. I am not terribly charmed by the sailsteer... looks interesting... maybe for racers... I lived without it and I can continue... but I will play with it if I have it.

As far as touch screen.... I suppose I am not too old to learn... phones are touch screen and I am OK with them. We'll see.

Too bad radars are not interoperable. I heard B&G has a new radar on the way.

Really want a readable plotter which I can turn on all the layers.... AIS, RADAR, currents, weather... and so on. I am familiar with Bluecharts and Navionics and I think old C-map all vector charts.

34 years of reliable performance of B&G is a strong reason for brand loyalty...
 
#10 ·
As far as touch screen.... I suppose I am not too old to learn... phones are touch screen and I am OK with them.
It isn't the learning that I have trepidation about - after all, any new plotter requires learning. A lot of learning, actually, since they all access different things in different ways using different modals.

My concern is usability in a wet environment, or salty fingers, or prune fingers from being wet, or dirty fingers from wrangling an engine issue, etc.

It wasn't an issue using one for a few months, but we didn't really have any bad weather, etc during this time.

I love B&G gear in general, and have owned it for 16yrs, but I hate their radar. Their Tritons are the bomb - I don't know why anyone buys any other small MFD. Their autopilots are also at the top, and much, much better than the Raymarine ones I have used (and is on our new boat - but not for long).

Mark
 
#12 ·
My intuitive issue w/ touch screens is that to get accuracy... you need a stable situation... and a sailing boat is often not very stable... motoring or sailing in light conditions should not be a problem... but when waves trains are moving the boat around etc....precision touch work seems a bit more challenging than turning knobs or pressing buttons. My T7 is a hybrid and the old C80 has no touch capability. I really never considered the messy hand / fingers or glove issue.
 
#13 ·
The bareboat we chartered this past winter, was all touch screen. I had the same preconceived notion about not liking the idea. While we never took green water in the cockpit, nor tossed the boat around too much, I found them much easier than expected. Now, the only reason I may want the knob, is for redundancy. Even the knobbed screens are still touch screen too.

On the other hand, the screen dimensions are much bigger, without the knobs. A concept I'm finding more and more appealing as my eyes reach their use-by date.

I did some serious research on this during the '17 Fall boat show season. I narrowed my choices down to B&G and Raymarine. I've certainly heard all those that are emphatically opposed to Ray, but my current system is a fully integrated Raymarine system and it's still kicking after 15 years. Some minor repairs along the way, but no nightmares.

I decided to buy new sails first, so electronics are next winter's upgrade.

In the end, I'll probably go with Raymarine again. I thought they were simpler to use, by a small degree. B&G had a few more features (mostly racing stuff), it seemed, but it was all stuff I didn't feel I needed and it just cluttered up the screen.

The new protocol to communicate between devices might be more universal and reliable. However, I still think it makes most sense to have everything from the same vendor to avoid finger pointing. I think this is also why it has value to pay someone else to do the install, so the finger isn't pointed at me.
 
#14 ·
Minni... I have a successful 3 decade experience with B&G so they are my default. I too am not needing all the racing screens and assume that this can be removed to give less clutter. Clarity and proper back lighting for evening is more important to me than screen size because 98% of my viewing is very close. But yeah... it makes sense to built a system with one mfg's components.

I am looking for a way to do this incrementally which I may be able to do as I have one of the 2 MFD plotters already.

The difficult part is installing a new wind instrument, and the radar without taking the mast down... expensive and time consuming. Using the old wind instrument cable I may be able to pull it out from the top with a messenger line attached and then pull the new cable down through the mast... a two person operation. The problem then is to remove the old and mount the new wind instrument. There are 2 bolts on the top of the mast which holds a small bracket and that holds the wind instrument... not something easily done from a bosun chair. I will likely have to have the yard send a man up in a crane to do the switch. If my new radar can use the ex'g mast bracket I can do that install from a chair. Mounting instruments and network cables is something I can do as well.
 
#15 ·
Night lighting on the Tritons is the best of any out there. It is the only night lighting that I've found to be actually usable at night, and not just an annoying contrivance to save night vision. The Tritons are absolutely brilliant in this regard. They don't so much do "backlighting" - instead they use a completely different color pallete and brightness/contrast. They are 100% readable in a relaxed, normal way - just like in daytime, but with preservation of vision.

If the B&G plotters are the same, then that is a big plus for them.

The Furuno is not so good, neither is the Garmin. Both do the traditional change the colors to muted and lower the backlighting. Both also have inexplicit random bright white elements which are blinding. This just results in straining so much to see the difference between gray, light black, and dark green elements that I just give up and leave it on day lighting with the brightness turned way down. Then put it to sleep unless I'm actually using it. The new Furuno may be a bit better - we will see.

For a wind instrument, you could get the LC Captuers CV7 ultrasonic, which is 0183. Then you could use your existing cable. Inside the boat, you connect up their N2K converter and put it on the network as a N2K device. We just bought one for our boat.

Honestly, a 6yr old can set up a N2K network and connect instruments with hardly any instruction. This is no longer 0183 nightmares of talkers and listeners, breakout boxes, repeaters, mux's, etc. It really is as simple as run a wire and plug things into it. Your entire network for what you want will consist of a few T's connected together, with terminator plugs on each end, and cables from each instrument plugged into them. Attached is a picture of our current N2K "network" (ignore the untidy wiring, I'm in the process of taking everything apart). To pay someone to install N2K is a waste of money unless your boat is a large and complicated network. Then, it is mostly money paid to someone just to snake cables.

Mark
 

Attachments

#17 · (Edited)
A N2K network consists of a "backbone" with a terminating resistor on each end. Everything connects to this backbone with a single drop cable from the instrument to the backbone between these two terminators.

The backbone can be as easy as a T-connector for each instrument unit connected in series, as shown in my picture (I don't know why it is sideways). A terminator is connected to the last T on each end.

If one only had a single instrument, the entire network would consist of 2 T-connectors in series with power connected to one, the instrument to the other, and a terminator plug on each end.

Drop cables from instruments/transducers/etc can only be a maximum of 20' long. If an instrument is further away than 20', then you need to extend the backbone closer to it.

If you need a longer backbone, you just connect a cable where one of the terminators is located, put a T-connector on the other end of the cable, and move the terminator to the end of that T. Connect the remote instrument to that T.

Here is the tricky part: if you use a NMEA2000 wind transducer, then the backbone must go up your mast, and be terminated there. So you will need a long cable for that. This is one of the reasons we went with the NMEA0183 CV7 wind transducer - we don't have to run the backbone up the mast, and we connect the transducer to the N2K network with a little converter. The N2K network stays inside the boat. Our other boat has the backbone up the mast, and I didn't like that for various reasons - makes troubleshooting difficult, if something goes wrong up there you are taking a trip up, the wire is larger and heavier, etc.

Maretron, and probably others, do make blocks of connectors that are essentially wired as a series of T's inside them. They can be inserted in a backbone and have multiple things plugged into them. It makes installations neater in some cases, particularly in large installs, but they are more expensive than a handful of T-connectors.

Mark
 
#18 ·
Another question.

I want to have a compass in the system... not to drive an AP... but to display compass on the Tritons and the plotter.
I have a KVH with does have a NMEA 183 port and its display can also be used as a GPS repeater and a race timer...

B&G offers 2 compasses... One the expensive Precision 9 ($600) and the less expensive GPS antenna with compass GB100 ($200) B&G state that the GB100 cannot support MARPA. Why not?

If I have an AIS will this not do "collision avoidance" etc? But only for AIS targets. The plotter I presume has the MARPA feature for radar targets.

Should I forego a new compass and stick with the KVH sailcomp 103 AC? cost $0
Should I get the GB100? Cost $200
Should I get Precision 9? Cost $600

My sailing will almost exclusively be from Mid Atlantic to Maine

Obviously I can upgrade the system later.

Comments please.
 
#19 ·
That's a good point, and I missed that. If you want to do ARPA, it is completely dependent on a good compass. The main aspects are a high update rate and stabilization in multiple axes. The ZG100 only has a 1Hz update rate for its compass (I think), and it is not stabilized (again, I think - B&G are rather vague about this compass). Frankly, I believe the ZG100 is rate-stabilized and updates at 10Hz with the GPS. Why they claim it is not suitable for ARPA is beyond me - although their Precision 9 is a superior compass. I suspect that its stabilization is not as good in rougher conditions, and that since it would be mounted in spots more favorable to GPS than to compasses, it would suffer from mounting position. Otherwise, I suspect it would work OK for ARPA.

We have a KVH Autocomp100, which is what I assumed you had. Ours works for ARPA, but I'm not sure yours will, since it is quite older. It is definitely not as good as the Precision 9 we also have.

So I don't have an answer to your question. The good thing for you is that adding a compass later is as easy as sticking it in an appropriate spot and connecting one cable to your network.

It comes down to how much you want to pay for good ARPA ability - you already listed the choices in increasing cost/performance order.

Mark
 
#20 ·
Thanks Mark...

I think for near term I will keep the KVH and test it with ARPA/MARPA... and upgade. If the new Zeus includes and GPS antenna I will not get the GB100. Again I need to see how it performs. The older Zeus T7 w/ internal GPS antenna seems to have been fine. I can add to the network as need be. The old T7 will be below and it may have problems with signal...

Question... If both Zeuses have internal GPS... which position will be shown on the network? Will I have to disable one of them? Don't want the Zeus brothers fighting!
 
#22 ·
My latest thinking is figure out how try to incrementally change to the NK2 network.

I have a couple of AIRMAR none Y2K and changing them is simple enough. When I do my old B&G Hornet has no speed data. The same for the wind. So once the speed and wind transducers are changed to N2k the B&G Hornet is doing nothing. The transducer data can be displayed on the ZeusT7 at the cockpit. B&G depth will still / can still work but not part of the network.

Then I need to add the compass... and the Triton2's. and they can be added even on at a time. But this means a new dash panel..

Last piece is a new Zues3, and move the T7 to down below and remake the nav station.
 
#23 ·
I think I'd have to re-read that a few times to follow. I get the picture that you're going to try to mix and match, new and old equip, with different comm protocols. Sounds like it has potential to be very frustrating.

Just read your old post about having multiple plotters/gps. We have two as well. One is set up to be the master and the other the slave (their terminology, which seems non-PC these days). Only the master needs the chart chip and the slave reads off the master. This is a nice setup, as one can enter their routing on one and it reads to the other. Our master is at the nav station, where I can float plan over coffee, in the morning, before going out to face the elements. The only downside, however, is if there is a brain scramble, the master needs to be recycled off/on, which is down below. Doesn't happen often, maybe every couple of years.
 
#24 ·
I think I'd have to re-read that a few times to follow. I get the picture that you're going to try to mix and match, new and old equip, with different comm protocols. Sounds like it has potential to be very frustrating.

Just read your old post about having multiple plotters/gps. We have two as well. One is set up to be the master and the other the slave (their terminology, which seems non-PC these days). Only the master needs the chart chip and the slave reads off the master. This is a nice setup, as one can enter their routing on one and it reads to the other. Our master is at the nav station, where I can float plan over coffee, in the morning, before going out to face the elements. The only downside, however, is if there is a brain scramble, the master needs to be recycled off/on, which is down below. Doesn't happen often, maybe every couple of years.
Actually No... I intend to arrive a B&G only N2K system with one older Zeus T7 and a newer Zeus3 plotter. The Triton displays are compatible with both.

My present data transducers are not N2k and not readable as far as I understand so all of them will be replaced... depth, temp. speed, wind and compass. I believe there are NMEA 183 to N2K converters and B&G is going back to 183 masthead units with a converter at base of mast

I am struggling with a way to transition from the working instruments I have and the T7 which is N2k but not the latest and greatest. I do not intend a fixed mount plotter in the cockpit and will use the same coach roof "winch mount" that the T7 uses. However the T7 will go below and the Z3 will take the winch position.

I don't do route/waypoint planning ... just enter one waypoint "on the fly" as needed. So if I can simply scroll to the location for the way point and "click" I am fine. Most plotters do that. I presume I can set it from below or from the cockpit.

I am not exploring new sailing waters for the most part so the plotter is really just a device to see where I am and give me data about "getting there".

I am not interfacing AP electronically with plotter. I am the interface. and set the course on the AP informed by what I see on the plotter. Comparing boat speed thru the water and SOG is often a tell about a fouled bottom. And of course current, radar and AIS data overlays is very important to inform navigation decisions. I don't want to scroll thru pages to see what I need.... so a few separate numeric displays with large numbers works for me.

Maybe I am too used to how I use instrument data to change to a different human interface. As I wrote my old instruments work fine for how I sail and were it not for their age and coming uncertain date of demise... I wouldn't be doing this planning. And as a result I want to TRANSITION from old to new not do a one step electronics refit. But I do need to N2k back bone. So I see the first step...
transducers, and Tritons...then the 2nd plotter and radar (very useful but not used much as we are doing mostly fair weather and day sailing). I think my KVH compass can be converted (short term) from 183 to N2K and then replaced with a new N2K.

Money is an issue as well.
 
#25 ·
I think you have unwarrantedly convinced yourself that this will be difficult or complicated. Without doubt, the transducers will need to be replaced with N2K ones, but this is as difficult and complicated as it gets for you. If you weren't currently on Hornets (good god, those are old!), then you might have even been able to use your current transducers with a converter.

Once these are physically replaced, you just create a simple N2K backbone by using a length of cable or a bunch of T-connectors, like I discussed earlier. This part is dead easy - the hardest part will only be connecting a power wire to a suitable breaker/fuse, and that difficulty is determined only by how hard it is to access your panel.

Now, your network is just waiting for any other instruments or transducers to be added. To add something, you just connect a single cable between the network backbone and the instrument/transducer. This can be done in pieces, at any time, and to any extent you like.

Your current autopilot won't integrate with anything anyway, so you don't need to worry about it. As for integration of the rest of the instrumentation - they are all sitting on a shared network and are all inherently integrated. Which parts of that integration you choose to use is entirely up to you - they won't take over, or force themselves together, or form cliques, or anything.

Your dash might not be as difficult as you think. I have a sketchy memory of the Hornets, but think they are ~5" square? If so, the Tritons may fit right in with just a simple modification. Ours fit in our old B&G Network places after I just filed out the cutout a little larger.

Your existing compass can be used with a converter, but you will spend ~$200 on a converter, so you will need to decide the relative value vs. new compass.

Mark
 
#26 · (Edited)
I realize that building the N2K is not that difficult. The B&G repeaters... and there are 6 in a row, closely spaced w/ a sailcomp will be replaced by at most 4 Tritons.... certainly not 7.

my plan was to make a 1/2" starboard dash... pre mount the Tritons with their N2K cabling... including a bulkhead connector for the winch mounted plotter whish is plugged in when I sail only.

I assume that the N2K works when devices are REmoved... leaving a T without a drop. and I can run the N2K with only some devices on??? such as have only the old T7 in the evening at anchor or for planning purposes from down below.

This is my concept of the network (wind would have a 183>Nk2 converter at mast base inside cabin.

I have two Airmar thru hulls for the DST and another for a Depth only as I remove the speed when not sailing and I still want depth when at anchor.

Nav station would be a new panel with the single old T7 bulkhead mount.... the new Zeus3 would be the removable winch mount whch has a plug for a dash N2K and 12v.

KVH is 183. I thought the Zeus can act as a converter and accept 183 and turn the data out as N2K on the network????? if so I don't need a converter. An N2K compass is $600/ YIKES
 

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#27 ·
Jeez, you don't need my advice - that schematic is better than anything I've done.

I completely forgot that you would be translating your compass data through the plotter - you don't need a converter. I like having the compass data on the network independent of the plotter, but mostly because our autopilot needs the compass and yours doesn't, so it isn't as necessary. Yes, N2K rate compasses are ~$600, but wow, do they ever perform. You don't need that because your autopilot doesn't use it, but if you ever change autopilots, you won't believe the performance of the new AP's using a 9-axis rate gyro. B&G's Precision 9 compass even outputs heave and roll data, and their AP uses them in its steering algorithms. It's ability to steer a boat in all conditions is remarkable - it knows when you are rising on a swell and beginning to rotate and surf down its face, and it steers accordingly. I'm not proud - it's better than me, particularly when things get rough. The trickle down is good with B&G - our boat has the steering algorithms and compass data now at the recreational level that the extreme racers did just a few years ago. One can actually get the extreme racing gear, but it costs a lot more. NKE is the only other company as good in autopilots.

N2K works fine with empty spaces. Drops are just potential data - they aren't hardwired in the network from the start. In fact, there isn't even on/off buttons on a lot of the gear - they can be hot swapped at will.

If you haven't already bought the transducers, I'd rethink the DST. Everyone I know with one has had bad trouble with it, and have gone through several replacements in short time periods. We stuck with separate speed and depth, and they have been rugged. Google the DST and you will find lots of problems with them. The good thing about separate depth is that Airmar makes those transducers in several tilted-element styles. If your transducer is located on an angle to the hull, you can get a tilted-element transducer that matches that angle so it will point straight down.

I didn't know B&G were now using a 0183 cable down the mast and doing the conversion inside. This is great. We just bought a LCV Captuers wind transducer that does the same. Our previous one had the N2K backbone running up the mast, but this is heavy and inconvenient if something goes wrong. For example, after many years, we had a termination problem. Since the terminator was at the top of the mast, I had to go up to swap out the terminator. First, though, I had to go up to troubleshoot it to make sure it was that terminator. Now, I keep the backbone totally inside the boat.

Mark
 
#28 · (Edited)
Mark... I don't do much sailing as the AP steers... when it's fun or challenging I may hand steer. Steering for the most part is boring. I navigate to a single waypoint.. and knowing my boat steer the AP to the next heading for a tack... and same for gybes... My AP is a small wheel/helm so it's very much like steering with the actual helm... but most are minor course course corrections... I don't doubt what a more high tech modern compass would do for steering. I simple want a digital presentation as opposed to looking at the binnacle compass.
Obviously if I use the KVH it will need a 183-N2K converter or use the T7 to convert its 183 to N2K.

Good to know that I can install the Ts and the equipment later.. and of course move them around... not that I would.

The newer B&G wind instrument is going to be NMEA 183 because the terminator at the top of the mast gave people too much trouble I am told... so the signal is converted to N2k for the network.

My main cockpit plotter is only on the network for sailing... so it will be plug in... the older T7 will be fixed mount below decks. I can enter waypoint data at either... and view RADAR and AIS on both. I am used to separate data displays with large numbers and will try to do the same... rather than multi line (smaller font) or scrolling (if it exists) data.

I was thinking of a separate always in Depth... and a removable Speed / Temp transducer... as I already have 2 thru hulls. Don't need an DST...

That's it and I hope this system last 10 years because it will outlast me!

I need some recommendations for AIS B. I was thinking Vesper but I really have no idea.
 
#29 ·
I really like our Vesper XB8000 black box AIS (actually, it is blue). It has a NMEA0183/2000 wifi server on it, so all our instrument data is available over wifi. It also has a nice phone/tablet app. Now, we get all instrument data on our computers, phones, and tablets, as well as the AIS data. I can take a phone to bed with me and glance at it if I hear things changing. The Vesper app also has an anchor alarm function, so the phone can alert us to that.

We don't need an AIS screen, because all we want are the targets showing on the chartplotter and all of our computers and devices.

Mark
 
#31 ·
The statement that you “don’t need” an N2K compass because “your autopilot doesn’t use it" is slightly misleading. You might not need the N2K compass for the AP, but you will need it to get MARPA to work on the radar, or to have a Heading Up chart display or to overlay radar data onto the chart display.
 
#32 ·
The statement that you "don't need" an N2K compass because "your autopilot doesn't use it" is slightly misleading. You might not need the N2K compass for the AP, but you will need it to get MARPA to work on the radar, or to have a Heading Up chart display or to overlay radar data onto the chart display.
I DO have a fluxgate compass... KVH 103AC which talks and listens w/ NMEA 183 protocol. I understand that there are newer more advanced compasses these days, but I am only interested in "heading" information which I believe the KVH can provide... It has a display for that purpose. Wouldn't this work for MARPA?
 
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