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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

Yes, the wing tanks and transfer pump might be a terrible idea. Complicated and power hungry. Thought I would throw it out there in case some one knew something I didn't.

In fact, the whole water ballast idea might not be practical.

Which doesnt rule out a Cal 21 as a raid boat, it just makes it a heavy raid boat.

I was reviewing this years Race to Alaska line up and they include;

A Junk Cat Ketch Bolger Chebaco
https://r2ak.com/2019-teams-full-race/team-auklet/

And a Pedal drive stern paddle wheel Macgregor 26.
https://r2ak.com/2019-teams-full-race/team-r2ache/

As well as a bunch of different entries that make you scratch your head.

Somehow a stripped down Cal 21 just doesn't seem that radical to me.
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

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Originally Posted by TimMarks View Post
You want to go raiding, go for a small dinghy that can be portaged by two people easily.
I already have that boat, 2 of them actually. One of them has been retired because its too uncomfortable. Its cold and it hurts.

The other one, my sailing kayak is my currently active boat. Its a great boat, and its more comfortable than my first. But, I still need to get to shore and set up a tent to sleep and it feels pretty small on big water, it's a 61 pound boat.

My next raid boat is going to have a cabin, whether its this one or some other. Sleeping exposed to the element s in a dry suit is only entertaining for so long. There are 3 major North American raids that I know of right now, none of those require a portage (although portaging certainly allows for some interesting short cuts).

Since water ballast, Macgregors and the R2AK have come up, here is a great shot from leg 1 of the R2AK. This was taken yesterday during Leg 1/qualifying. Looks exciting. I borrowed it off the R2AK Facebook Page.
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

If you removed the keel trunk you would have room for one really big center tank.
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

I must admit that this has been running through my mind ever since I saw the original post yesterday. Its not simple, but its very doable.

I will start by saying I had never really paid attention to the design of a Cal 21 before. That is a wildly efficient hull, rig, keel and rudder for that day and purpose. I would have to think that it would be a good platform to do what you are proposing but it will take some serious skill to sail that boat if you remove the swing keel since stability from the deep draft with a bulb layout of the swing keel will be hard to replace.

I suggest that reading the comments, that there seems to some misunderstanding about how you would move water ballast on a boat this size. You don't pump it. You use a water tank that is mounted on a trolley that allows the water tank to be pulled across the boat. The tank itself would be moved by a block and tackle system that could be controlled from the cockpit. If the long axis of the tank were oriented fore and aft, I would think that you would roughly need a 25 gallon tank (roughly 200 lbs) to equal the righting moment of the original keel. The tank and trolley could be mounted high enough that it can clear the top of the centerboard trunk. Center-line water ballast tanks do almost nothing useful unless the boat has a huge amount of form stability which this boat does not. I would forget about adding a center-line water tank. I might consider building a deep draft centerboard that had maybe a 100 lb lead shoe, but I am not sure that is even necessary.

To tack, the traveler would be dropped to stand the boat up, and then the tank would be lowered to the center-line of the boat. The boat would then be tacked and settled in. Once settled in the tank would get pulled to windward in much the same way you pull up the traveler after a tack. Lastly the sail plan gets fully loaded up. Its probably a 30 second tack vs a 15 second tack.

A boat this light could be rowed in much the same way that a Dovekie is rowed. The only downside of this particular boat for a raid boat is that the rig is not easy to step and un-step, and also is longer than the boat so does not stow neatly. On the flip side, this is an easy rig to sail short-handed and there is plenty of sail area. I might be tempted to turbo the boat by perhaps rigging running backstays, and go to a square head mainsail and a masthead chute.

Whatever you do, you will probably want to add additional internal framing to offset the strains of increasing the stability of the boat and the spot loads of the water tank trolley and its supports.

Jus' say'n,
Jeff
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

Thanks Jeff,

That brought some concepts into focus for me. The pulley and the rail concept reminds me a little bit of a type of boat I have read about but never seen called sandbag schooners, or something like that.

It seems to me, that the tank trolley concept could be used together with the swing keel for even greater stability.

You have given me a starting point for further research. It seems to me, the logical steps, would be pay my dollar and try sailing the boat as is, see how the keel repair stands up, try beaching the boat (possibly with the assistance of a big anchor and 12 volt winch) and see if the weight is manageable with the swing keel.

Then figure out where to go from there.

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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

Smittybilt makes a soil/sand recovery anchor that is pretty light and stowable. Called the W.A.S.P. toss your normal anchor in at the stern to drag you off the beach, and use the recovery anchor to get you up.
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

By the way, if properly configured the tank is not filled and emptied with a pump, but by gravity. This takes a little courage and skill since you seriously heel the boat to fill or empty the tank, but the idea is that there is a very large fill (probably 2") and vent on the tank. The fill is at the bottom center of the tank and the vent is at the top. The fill goes to a seacock on the centerline of the hull and has plenty of hose so the tank can be move across the boat with the hose attached. To fill the tank, the tank is lowered to leeward and the boat, the seacock opened and the boat heeled to leeward enough that the tank is below the waterline (i.e. rail almost in the water. As the tank fills the boat will heel more to leeward. Once the tank is full, the seacock and vent is is closed and the boat tacked or the tank pulled to weather.

To empty the tank, the tank is pulled to weather and the seacock and vent opened. As the tank empties the boat will heel more helping it drain.

Jeff
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

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Originally Posted by Arcb View Post
Thanks Jeff,

That brought some concepts into focus for me. The pulley and the rail concept reminds me a little bit of a type of boat I have read about but never seen called sandbag schooners, or something like that.

It seems to me, that the tank trolley concept could be used together with the swing keel for even greater stability.

You have given me a starting point for further research. It seems to me, the logical steps, would be pay my dollar and try sailing the boat as is, see how the keel repair stands up, try beaching the boat (possibly with the assistance of a big anchor and 12 volt winch) and see if the weight is manageable with the swing keel.

Then figure out where to go from there.
You are referring to Sandbaggers. Mystic Seaport Museum has the last remaining original sandbagger 'Annie'. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...mg._-WUp0pt4Is

Sandbaggers were 19th century race boats that were raced by local watermen. They were a big deal in their day. They were not schooners but were sloop rigged and based on the oystering boats of lower New York Harbor. These were very serious race boats in that they were dry sailed and had bottom paint that was graphite rubbed into varnish and then burnished for speed. They carried a scary amount of sail area with their boom and bowsprit extending the overall length of the boat by sometimes as much as 2 or more times the length of the hull. These boats were handled by large crews chosen in large part for their strength. The name 'sandbagger' came from the fact that every time they tacked dozens of 50 lb. bags of sand were physically picked up and moved across the boat to keep the boat on its feet.

In their heyday, sandbag races were widely followed. Working class people would rent livery whitehalls and row out to watch the races. Although they were primarily a New York Harbor phenomena, across the country the results were bet on, and race action and results were literally telegraphed across the country and quickly published in 'extras' (abbreviated copies of newspapers issued to cover breaking news). Major races were followed as closely as the Kentucky Derby or World Series. Its a bit like way that the French follow offshore racing in the Mini Transat, Figaro's and Class 40 race boats today.

Jeff


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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

Arcb
Jeff's ideas sound good....be certain you wear a good lifejacket.
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Re: Another $1 Boat Thread, Water Ballast Conversion

Don't some water ballast boats use gravity to drain the water from one side to another?

Catalina 22
on a starboard tack
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