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New theft threat

4K views 35 replies 10 participants last post by  outbound 
#1 ·
I friend of mine just bought a boat and noticed that the chip worth about $200 was stolen from his chart plotter.

It is easy to get to, just open a cover and pull out the chip.

Never thought of that before, myself.
 
#8 ·
It is only relevant to particular plotters. Furuno, for example doesn't use chips or other removable media.

Mark
I think they have a microSD card but it is practically inaccessible being in a slot on the back of the monitor within the waterproof pod. However, these cards can be copied, so losing one is not a disaster - they just have to have the same 'license number' as the master.

For most applications, our iPad is fine (at the risk of reigniting the old arguments on this matter). But there have been times in the past 6 months where we took water over the bow that challenged the helmsman to stay standing and may well have pulled a removable mounted unit off. That is not necessarily the type of sailing that most people do (nor that we would plan for) generally.

Also, in addition to overlaying radar, getting real-time AIS has proven very useful. Not quite sure how to do those two things on our iPad.
 
#5 ·
The nav station master plotter, like we have too, has been falling out of favor, often being replaced by tablets or laptops on WiFi. This is a new consideration for keeping the old ways, for sure.

Then again, pulling the chip and putting it below is not the end of the world.
 
#6 ·
Just a dinghy racer today, it’s been two decades since I’ve had a boat with a chart plotter, but I’m surprised these things are still in use. You haven’t all replaced them with iPads on adjustable mounts? Seems to me they have all the hardware required, and there must be some good chart plotter apps today? Raise your hand if you don’t already own an iPad or two!
 
#12 ·
Just a dinghy racer today, it's been two decades since I've had a boat with a chart plotter, but I'm surprised these things are still in use. You haven't all replaced them with iPads on adjustable mounts? Seems to me they have all the hardware required, and there must be some good chart plotter apps today? Raise your hand if you don't already own an iPad or two!
I have 2 iPads including the most recent pro.....none diplay my radar over my charts.......maybe that is also I surprise to you.
 
#9 ·
Love my navionics on our iPads but all to often in the rain or after a day of taking spray the touch pad just doesn’t work. Have eye glass cleaner in a spray bottle. That and a very soft microfiber makes it work for awhile then need to do it again.
So as long as they make chart plotters with the redundancy of keys, joysticks and touch that’s the way we will go.
See the RM on the IPad as well and can run the autopilot from that or the small waterproof wireless RM remote. There’s still too much you give up without the chart plotters and various add ons. Don’t understand why a fully wireless network can’t be done. Hear even something as simple as a wind indicator can be unreliable.
 
#15 ·
I tend to use split screen (radar/AIS on one side and chart on the other) or overlay radar at ~60% on the chart. This works great on a 10” or 12” screen. Doesn’t work on a phone or even a pad. I also “tune “ the radar as I’m often not happy with the preprogrammed or auto tune. Particularly helpful looking for squalls but at the other end also for navigational aids. Find this nearly impossible on the iPad. Sometimes I follow a depth contour, radar shoreline and monitor AIS while having the chart screen up. Get on a ship or mega yacht you see a couple of big monitors. On either you can put whatever parameters you want. No issues with reading the fine print, glare or getting to the data you want. Chart plotters are close. Pads are far behind.
Pads are good for seeing how things are going as you lie in your bunk or for chatting with another cruiser about your next leg slipping a drink. But for actual transits unfortunately the chart plotters are still better.
 
#16 ·
How do you know it doesn't work on a tablet - other than there are no actual apps that do this?

Many tablets are larger and much higher resolution than many chart plotters.

For example, Apple makes a 13" iPad with an incredible 2388x1668 resolution. I just installed a new 12" chartplotter with a measly 1280x800 resolution. The plotter allows me to control it with the iPad, but it forces the iPad into the plotter's resolution. It looks terrible in comparison to the normal iPad resolution. I don't think there are any recreational plotters that even come close to tablet resolution specs. Those large screens you see in ships are not plotters - they are expensive high resolution displays only. The plotters are actual computers, and not the recreational stuff we use. At the low end, they are black box plotters of our variety, only driving separate high resolution displays.

The most expensive iPad costs 1/3 of the chartplotter I just installed.

Mark
 
#18 ·
Not really true Mark

Not against the I pads as I have two including the newest Pro Model . 11 inch A12 chip. The cheepest I saw the 256 gig with WiFi is over $850. No plan

There are certainly some MFD comparable.

Your point about the resolution is well taken, though my older Raymarine C90W certainly is good enough for my 65 year old tired eyes.
 
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#19 ·
It’s all about seeing all the relevant data on one screen in a readable format and the ability to easily access (and switch) parameters. The screen it’s on is fairly irrelevant be it pad, monitor or integral. Resolution is important to the point it adds deciphering but I’m not watching movies just want to get where I’m going safely. Sure it’s great I can adjust my music system from my RM screen but so what.
As said a central “brain” in a watertight compartment being feed by all your peripherals could be on any damn screen and I’d be a happy camper. Even now send the RM to the IPad. Agree there’s no reason other than the security of redundancy for having multiple processors. Would think to meet that concern just like having two drives for the AP you could have two mirrored processors. Updates and self diagnostics should be automatic. Diagnostics for the peripherals should be included. This can be done through WiFi when available or if key and urgent then the sat phone. This business of downloading or updating charts by the end user seems ridiculous as well.
Gee wiz even my car does this stuff in the background without my input.
The paradigm has shifted. Tablets don’t have the basic configuration to serve these functions and chart plotters are way too expensive for what you get, cumbersome to use as you scroll through menus or try to recall how to access a function and are poorly designed seemingly due to legacy concerns.
If one of the current chart plotter vendors changed the paradigm to offer a brain and peripherals that could be projected to any screen or monitor of the users choice think they would get a large proportion of the market. Especially if the interface (monitor/pad) allowed user input asking for data with winter gloves on or the screen wet or when bumpy so hitting the right spot in a screen isn’t required. In short a hybrid interface. Think given the brain would be as cheap as a low tech tower. Not much doing for the cpu. So the whole package could come in at comparable costs to current options.
I’ve thought to do this with my toughbook. Because of AIS, radar and the other peripherals it’s not practical. Rather than FLIR or sonar which seems a waste of time for the recreational boater would sure like some CCTV. I’m often by myself and it sure would decrease the pucker factor docking. See it on even fairly small(Norhavn 43 and the like) motorboats. One looking down from each of the spreaders that you could click to or something similar. Be particularly helpful on big cats with the helm off to one side.
 
#21 ·
If one of the current chart plotter vendors changed the paradigm to offer a brain and peripherals that could be projected to any screen or monitor of the users choice think they would get a large proportion of the market.
They do. Or at least Furuno does, and has done for many years. They offer their plotters in a black box version that connects to all peripherals and drives any screen or monitor. And they have hybrid interfaces for them - the user can connect touchscreens, control pads, keyboards, etc.

Mark
 
#26 ·
Once members have over about 1,000 posts we expect them to Self-Moderate....

....thusly, herely, we think these two boys can separate themselves to their respective corners, hear the final Ding, put on their robes and retire to the bar together where they can have a drink in comradeship.


Ding-Ding; Gulp, Gulp.


Mark :)
 
#27 ·
Don’t recall saying anything about resolution at all. Do recall saying having all relevant data on one screen in a easily read format is a good thing.
Don’t recall saying anything about a particular lower size limit but do recall below a reasonable size it’s nearly impossible to meet the above criteria.
I’m myopic. I unfortunately have occasion to sail in crappy weather. To date I’ve yet to find a touch screen on anything be it pad, tablet or chart plotter that reliably works. I’ve yet to find a pad/tablet I can read and use at the helm in snotty conditions.
Furuno comes close but also not there yet. Still, wired. Still not customizable to allow what peripherals you choose. Still ridiculously expensive.
Suspect within our lifetimes you will put on a pair of glasses or have implants or be projected holographic images. You will ask or think of what you want to see and there it will be.
The underlying engineering, AI, is well on its way. This compulsion to take hard one or the other positions will be irrelevant. Even now think many use both and will embrace the next great thing. In the meantime just hope the manufacturers stop adding useless bells and whistles to their programs.
 
#30 ·
Don't recall saying anything about resolution at all. Do recall saying having all relevant data on one screen in a easily read format is a good thing.
Don't recall saying anything about a particular lower size limit but do recall below a reasonable size it's nearly impossible to meet the above criteria.
I'm myopic. I unfortunately have occasion to sail in crappy weather. To date I've yet to find a touch screen on anything be it pad, tablet or chart plotter that reliably works. I've yet to find a pad/tablet I can read and use at the helm in snotty conditions.
Furuno comes close but also not there yet. Still, wired. Still not customizable to allow what peripherals you choose. Still ridiculously expensive.
Suspect within our lifetimes you will put on a pair of glasses or have implants or be projected holographic images. You will ask or think of what you want to see and there it will be.
The underlying engineering, AI, is well on its way. This compulsion to take hard one or the other positions will be irrelevant. Even now think many use both and will embrace the next great thing. In the meantime just hope the manufacturers stop adding useless bells and whistles to their programs.
You had talked about large monitors, enough space for split screens, and ability to read small stuff easily, so I took that as being about size and resolution in my response. I still don't understand how those things aren't dependent on size and resolution.

Furuno doesn't make a tablet, so I don't understand your statement about them coming close to making a tablet you can read and use at the helm. Maybe you meant their radar/app on a tablet?

As for peripherals, the only peripheral specific to Furuno is the radar. This is true for all manufacturers. Otherwise, we have 22 peripherals connected to our Furuno plotter, and none of them are Furuno. Everything works just fine, and all but the autopilot can actually be controlled through the Furuno plotter. The autopilot can be set to a waypoint or route through the Furuno, but all of its functionality is not available there. This is also the case for all manufacturers.

Which brings up a separate point about the current plotters - they are chock-full of functionalities that don't make much sense to me. For example, one of the peripherals connected to the network is our stereo. The Furuno sees this and allows me to control it through the chartplotter. If we had a Furuno AP, it would also be completely controllable through the plotter. Raymarine plotters can control your drone. And it goes on from there - if we had them connected, the plotter can control our lights, and AC/heat, and much everything else on board. We could use our phones from the plotter.

But the plotter is about the worse interface for these things I can imagine. It also is usually mounted in the worse place to do many of these things. I don't understand the need or want for this type of thing. I do understand the AP control because it would allow someone to not have a separate control head, although that is not how I like it. If one wanted networked lights, environment, etc, it would be much better done away from the plotter on a dedicated central device. I have no experience with drones, but the thought of operating one through my plotter sounds like immediately throwing $1000 into the ocean.

Other than that, standardization of marine communication has been a blessing for boaters. We are no longer beholden to a single brand throughout everything we want installed, and a 6yr old can install pretty much everything - it is all plug and play, with power for most stuff drawn off the network using a single cord with simple plug ends.

Personally, I'm looking forward to what augmented reality and AI will bring to the industry. I would like glasses with projections on them - look at a ship and see its information, CPA, TCA, etc. Even see its future relative crossing position with your boat. Look at shore and see a chart overlay or radar overlay showing you if things are what they seem. "See" channel markers and other things in the dark. The possibilities are endless and game-changing. People are always complaining about sailors having their heads buried in their plotters and not using their Mark1 eyeballs, but Mark2 eyeballs like above solves everything.

Mark
 
#28 · (Edited)
Here’s what I want in a navigational aid.
Integration of all information.

I’m going Hampton Va to Antigua W.I.. Tell the great circle course. But modify it to:
Allow for weather and avoid waves over 2 meters.
Or
Achieve the best VMG & passage time
Or
Best mpg if under power
Or
Any combination
While doing this avoid collision risk and grounding risk.

Or
I’m going day sailing and want to go from X to Y or maybe from X back to X.
Tell me and plot
The sail with the least beating (or the most) or least DDW.
The sail with the least amount of traffic that I can do in x time.
The sail in the lightest air.
The transit with least engine.
The sail making best use of current.
While doing this of course no collisions or grounding

When I ocean raced often served as navigator. Most of that job was guesstimating the answers to questions like those above. Now navigators have elegant programs to help them through this so it is more science and less art. Don’t see why at least the basics of this can’t currently be done on recreational boats.
Download gribs, currents whatever’s necessary and have the interface do pop ups or alerts for weather or high traffic zone, vessels with tows or whatever you what.
Also allow for colorblindness if needed. One of my good friends on a sistership is colorblind. Rather than color demarcating heading and cog use little balls or dashes for those lines. Even for us using the same screens for the last six years takes awhile to figure which is which especially when tired or in rain/fog/full sun/screens turned down at night.
 
#31 ·
Also allow for colorblindness if needed. One of my good friends on a sistership is colorblind. Rather than color demarcating heading and cog use little balls or dashes for those lines. Even for us using the same screens for the last six years takes awhile to figure which is which especially when tired or in rain/fog/full sun/screens turned down at night.
Like mentioned, there are many programs running on computers and tablets, and probably some plotters, that do all of what you want. Optimum routing taking into account weather, currents, boat polars and great circle has been common for a long time. Even for free on OpenCPN.

I was quite surprised at the new Furuno, Simrad, and B&G instrumentation we are installing. They have a litany of color palletes to choose from for display. Red/green color blind? No problem, they have that covered with other color schemes. Want your wind graph to match your upholstery? Check. If one is truly blind to all color, they can be set to black and white. And in reversed mode if wanted. Heading and COG lines can be set to a multitude of line styles, as well as colors and thicknesses. Dots, dashes, dashes and dots, etc. For normal vision, I was also surprised at how well dusk and night modes are accomplished. In the past, this generally meant just dulling the brightness and contrast, and made everything that much harder to see. So bad that we never used it - instead just putting the cover on it when we didn't need it. Now, the screens change to whole different color palletes and styles, and are "bright" and fully and easily readable without ruining night vision any more than necessary (at least no more, and I think less, than the old way).

Hope this doesn't make them more prone to theft (see what I did there?).

Mark
 
#33 ·
C & C know what you guys posted. Try to use it. Decade old cars let you pick no tolls or shortest or fastest. One click on one screen and you’re done. User interface leaves much to be desired. Have have open on the toughbook, the RM does great circle automatically without me even asking. Navionics on the iPad gives POI that’s up to date. Both the navionics and the RM are cloud edited including sonar. Nothing does it all. Still spend time before leaving going through everything. When on the fly or things change still a PIA to recalibrate. The RM is circa 2013 and works. Sounds like I should look at Furuno more. From the others I’ve had opportunity to play with and the the B&G was the nicest. Haven’t played with a new furuno except briefly on a stationary 54’ lady krogan a fellow cruiser was showing to me and the bride.
 
#35 ·
Sounds like I should look at Furuno more.
I don't know about that, and am not pimping Furuno - I suspect all of them are like this now. Our B&G Tritons have a multitude of color palletes and great night modes, so I expect their plotters do also. Same with our Simrad AP controller. I've no experience with Raymarine, but they have always paid attention to user interface, so expect them to be up on this. Our previous Garmin was from 2015 and was awful in this regard - but again, I suspect they are different now. Our previous Furuno was from 2011 and was equally awful in this regard.

Mark
 
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