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40 yr old teak decks

7K views 36 replies 15 participants last post by  nightowle 
#1 ·
I always told myself I'd never consider a boat with teak decks. Now a boat has come on the market I'm interested in. It's nearing 40 years old, a Bob Perry design, 45ish ft LOA. Its priced well below market value. It looks to be well maintained and the owner says the decks have no leaks. Being that I'm 2000 miles away it would probably cost me $3,000 to see it; haul out, survey, flight, hotel, car rental, etc.

Even if the teak is at the end of its life it would leave me enough money to sail it to Mexico (boat is on the California coast) where I could have the teak replaced or simply removed and fiberglassed over for a reasonable price. Let's say $10k US

So my question is would the teak decks make this an automatic no or would you consider it?
 
#2 ·
As someone who owns a 40-year-old teak decked boat I would not make this an automatic no. BUT, I would not necessarily take the sellers word for it. If these are original decks it would be something approaching a miracle if they had zero problems.

But if this a well designed and well built boat, a leak is not the end of the world. It just has to be dealt with.
 
#36 ·
hi , I have laid teakdecks for more than 20 years and a thin teakdeck on a sailing boat will always give trouble unless it's glued . I laid decks wich were bedded in sicaflex and no fixing in to the glas deck , they will last longer but imagine a deck is wet through and is not dry instantly so if there is a whole the water has all the time to get in , even when it's a pinhole . Now if you have fixings in to the glas ,the wood moves ,the fixing are getting loose and the water creeps in and when it's in it won't come out anymore and start its destructive work . A teackdeck is in this case pure luxe and not necessary and will give problems what will get worse with age regards Karel
 
#3 ·
I think your estimate of the cost to remove and glass over the deck is very much on the low side. Some teak decks can be very hard to remove due to strong adhesive, broken screws and so on. And the level of detail required to re surface the decks can surprise you. I recently fixed teak cap and rub rails on Island Packet 35 and it gave me a sobering view of teak decks in general. Not a deal breaker IMO but a serious cost factor. I would tentatively double your estimate.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the replies so far. So I have a friend with a Baba 40 and he had his teak taken off and decks fiberglassed for $7k. That was in Rio Dulce, Guatemala. He was very happy with the work. That's what I'm basing my estimate on. You could very well be right though.

Of course the common saying for any boat project is double the budget and triple the time.
 
#6 · (Edited)
In 15 years of cruising, I have seen several boats with old, failing teak decks and I have seen the disasters that can lurk beneath the teak due to 20-30 years of leaks:

Rotted deck cores, plywood or balsa,
Chainplates that crumble because of crevice corrosion,
Internal bulkheads, that support chainplates, rotted out.

Keeping a mast vertical when a chainplate goes and you are out in a storm can be challenging.

Usually, there is a reason that a boat is priced well below market!

Good luck, you might need it! The only way to know is to go and see!
 
#7 ·
I love teak decks, if it weren’t for the cost and maintenance. :)

There are love them and hate them folks out there. Not unlike an inground pool. Something to consider is whether any of those boats were made without teak decks. If not, yours could look bastardized.

Replacing with non-skid is no easy endeavor. Removing all the glue, caulking, screws and ultimately refinishing the glass to be smooth is time consuming. I’ve seen a poor job of this and it really looks bad.

If you had to replace, I’d consider Teak Deck Systems. You send a pattern, they send you a deck. But there’s still way more to it.
 
#8 ·
The OP didn’t mention the brand of the boat. I’ve got a 1982 Norseman 447 with teak decks. The deck is arriving to the point where something serious is going to be required. In terms of deck leaks, the only ones after 20 years of ownership have been around the chain plates where the original installers left the core open.

Getting rid of the teak decks is a bigger job than it looks like. I just ripped up the teak on the seat area of the cockpit. It was a very small area, no more than 7’ x 8’ outside dimensions with a seat maybe 16” wide. I could do it all sitting down, not kneeling. It took two days to get all the old teak off with a circular saw and a big chisel. Another day to get out all the screws. Another day to drill out all the screw holes and fill with epoxy. Another two days to sand, smooth and finish with gel coat.

That’s just the cockpit seat, a small area of maybe 30 square feet with excellent access and easy working conditions.

To do the same thing on the actual deck would first involve taking off all the overhead panels in the cabin, which is a big, inconvenient job. Then you remove everything that’s set down on the deck: cleats, winches, tracks, windlass, etc. Each of those can be a challenge because in my case then we’re all attached to the deck before any of the interior was installed. So often the nuts and any backing plates are now blocked with bulkhead, electrical wiring, etc. I could imagine at least a weeks work just getting all the liners down. You’d have to label them and get them all off the boat to have any space to work.

Once everything is off the deck, you’ll have to get all of the teak removed while you’re on you knees. Then drilling, filling and sanding all the holes in the entire deck. I did this once on a 41’ boat and stopped counting at 4000 holes. This assumes you had nothing else like a leak somewhere to fix.

Then you need to figure out what you’re going to put back down. Will you use the old stanchion bases? Are all the fittings, tracks, blocks, etc. still usable? Should you reengineer the backing plates.

Then you have to refinish the deck. Painting with anti skid is probably the cheapest way, but takes a lot of labor to sand and mask. A synthetic surface is probably easier but costs maybe $30/square foot before installation.

Then you reinstall everything on the deck.

Then you reinstall all the interior panels.

If you can get that done for $10k, I’d like to know where.
 
#9 ·
We came very close to buying a Peterson 46 with the original teak decks.

I was pretty paranoid and went to the effort of bringing a good friend who is an experienced shipwright along with me and doing a thorough assessment of the state of the decks. Bottomline they weren't leaking and while cosmetically they weren't an amazing asset to the boat, they were still alright. There is I guess though that thought that one day, some day, sooner than later you do have to do something about them.

However aren't boats in general just basically all made up of several bits that are leaking, failing, corroding ticking timebombs? I guess Teak Decks are just one more thing and many folks don't wanna bother.

So why didn't we buy the Peterson? Turns out while I was being paranoid and pondering my offer, a guy came along and offered the seller 10k less than I would of and bought the boat out from under me. He has replaced a couple of teak plugs and went sailing.

So no for me not a deal breaker. Go into it with your eyes open and have a plan. It sounds like you are and you do. Best of luck.
 
#11 ·
I don't understand why anyone would buy a boat that has systems that need to be maintained that have no real reason for being on the boat. Teak decks on a modern day fiberglass boat are a waste of time and money. I have sailed on boats with and without teak decks and the only thing that i got from a Teak deck that I did not get from a fiberglass deck was Splinters and burnt feet.
 
#12 ·
Well… there really is no reason to own a sailboat at all ;). It's pretty much the slowest, and most expensive way, to go anywhere. It certainly makes no rational sense to own one.

Teak makes an excellent non-skid in all sea conditions. It is warm and comfortable on the feet. It is aesthetically beautiful. It's really not that hard to maintain - certainly no harder than many other boat systems.

If hard cold functionality really were the criteria by which we made decisions about boating, well, I think none of us would bother to own a sailboat ;).
 
#15 ·
I haven't met a boat owner who's honest with me or who hasn't taken up residence in some silted in harbor (in which case they have cheap housing, not really a boat), who doesn't care about what their boat looks like.

Now beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but IMHO teak decks are pretty darn attractive. They are also an excellent non-skid surface. Boat 4 of 5 had teak decks. I never got splinters, but my wallet sprang a definite leak :).

As they get older, the teak itself wears and the caulking between the boards starts to stand up higher than the boards. Then you can re-caulk, and maybe sand it a bit, till you get to the point that the bungs are gone and you are looking at the screws. Of course the potential leak points are numerous. I've seen newer construction where the teak is glued down which avoids the million screw holes. I've also watched as a board yard tried to remove that teak on a large yacht, not pretty or cheap.

IMHO, we all operate at different points when it comes to evaluating esthetics vs. maintenance cost/time. You can't say you spend zero time or dollars on esthetics, because I think for most of this that's a lie. Each of us pick an operating point we can live with and pay with either time or money.

IMHO, I would not buy a teak decked boat to save money, because the purchase price was low. Buying the is cheap part. Maintenance is where you pay. I would only buy one if I loved teak decks so much, I didn't care what the maintenance cost would be.

There's lots of boats out there, and the cost of curing a problem like old teak decks in time or money is not cheap.
 
#22 ·
There must be a reason why very few boats are being built with teak decks today. It's sort of like people arguing that the Atomic A4 had good qualities. Well, yea, if they were so great why did builders stop putting them in sailboats in the 1980s? For whatever reason, people don't want gas auxiliary engines (no matter how much quieter and smoother the A4 enthusiasts claim they are) and people don't want teak decks. Times change. If you don't care about resale some day, and are up for the challenge of maintaining and probably replacing the old teak decks, have at it. I think teak decks look and feel great, but they don't make sense on a modern cruising sailboat.
 
#23 ·
Ever since the great recession, it seems the production manufacturers that survived, have engineered cost out of the product. That includes removing virtually all real teak, not just the side decks. Lower price point sells. I think you can buy the latest Jeanneau 54 for about the same, if not less, than my 2004 54DS sold for new. Different boats.

High end stuff is still coming out with teak decks, albeit, not universally.
 
#24 ·
I'm chartering several boats in September. One of them is a 44' Jeanneau from 2014 and has teak decks.

I would note two things about that. 1) It's definitely unusual. 2) The owner is not local and pays to have the boat professionally maintained.



EDIT: 3) It looks damned sharp.
 
#25 ·
I'm sure cost is a factor, but I think there's more to the decline in teak decks than just that. It's an outdated, inferior material to many minds, and there's a definite trend toward simple and functional. I'm guessing that putting two identical boats side by side, same cost, one with teak decks and the other with synthetic or glass, the majority will choose the latter, maybe by a very wide margin.
 
#31 ·
I can't say where the majority would come down, but it's true that teak decks are not for everyone. Since it's cheaper not to have them, it stands to reason that would be more popular. Just like an inground pool, they cost more and for some people are a deterrent, while for others an attraction.

Another teak dynamic is that it was being harvested unsustainably and has become harder and even more expensive to source now. The production manufacturers needed so much, it became impractical. I think France, for example, even banned several sources for environmental and social reasons.
 
#28 ·
So one thing I'm doing is comparing value with apples to apples in mind. I've seen a Pearson 424 sloop. Nearly an identical layout. No teak decks, just toe rail, cockpit combing. It's been sailing the Caribbean for the last 4 years so its outfitted for cruising. Solar, generator, refrigeration, radar, davits, watermaker, autopilot. All the bells and whistles. Asking $56k.

The Bob Perry boat has a higher build quality than the Pearson, it's faster. Generally selling for a higher price point. Asking prices around $120k. Its a striking boat with the teak decks and it has a black hull. Seems like these two things make it harder to sell. Not outfitted for cruising at all. Doesn't even have refrigeration. Good things are its repowered but with a Volvo, rigging and electronics are 5 years old. Asking price is $65k. Seller is flexible on price since it will need to be outfitted. I've seen a 4 year old survey and it is positive overall.

Really the only downer about the Pearson is that I already own one, a 367. Feels like I'd be moving from a Toyota carolla up to a Camry. Lol
 
#32 ·
.....I've seen a 4 year old survey and it is positive overall......l
Totally irrelevant, I wouldn't consider a survey that was 6 months old to be worth the paper it was written on. Not all surveys are done with your same interest either. Some are just being done to assess a value and safe condition for an insurance company, other only to justify a value to finance. Folks shop their surveyor for these reasons. Most don't pay to have one get into the nitty gritty, but certainly should.
 
#29 ·
One other consideration is the hull color.

2 of the 5 we owned were awl gripped in dark colors. Wow, I love the way they look. IMHO, dark hulls are beautiful. Again, that esthetic vs. practicality equation.

But I sail in New England and Canada. I need heat more often than air conditioning.

If my plan was to go south, I'd think hard about dark colors.

YMMV as your heat tolerance.
 
#30 ·
....2 of the 5 we owned were awl gripped in dark colors. Wow, I love the way they look. IMHO, dark hulls are beautiful. Again, that esthetic vs. practicality equation. ......
This is a very good analogy. Dark hulls are only aesthetic and serve no practical purpose in the utility of the boat. At least teak decks do have some advantages, even if overwhelmingly aesthetic and pricey.

With a painted hull, you have to be all that more diligent in maintenance, or you'll be repainting sooner than you like. Once painted, always painted. No turning back. BTW, I think its much more difficult to return to non-skid, from teak, than many imagine.

In both cases, however, there may be a real psychological benefit. As they say, a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. All boats, that is ALL boats, will require some heartbreaking, frustrating expenses and/or work. It's important that one can sit back, from time to time, see the result and really feel it is worth it. Aesthetics can do this for some people.
 
#34 ·
Of course I've been reading everything I can on teak decks and dark hulls. This is an Airex cored hull which adds a good deal of insulation. I dont think taking the boat to the tropics will make a big difference in cabin temp but one thing that's cropped up in my reading is dark colors on cored hulls can lead to delamination.
 
#35 ·
Interesting. My Rafiki has an Airex cored hull. It's down to a couple of feet above the start of the keel encasement, so not 100%. This boat is definitely well insulated. Stays cool well into the heat of day, and stays warm well into the night. Also insulated against sound, so I sleep well.

Not sure if this is insulating character is due to the Airex, or simply because my hull is so damn thick anyway.
 
#37 ·
Well, a lot of posts about the dangers of teak decks and that you seem to know about already. But if you're willing to investigate the boat further you might want to hire a surveyor before buying your plane ticket. You don't need to be there for a survey. Yes, it's nice, but it's not entirely necessary. Then you'll know if it's the right boat to pursue further. You can always have the surveyor revisit the boat and go through his/her findings for an hour if you show up to buy it.
 
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