Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport - Page 12 - SailNet Community
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post #111 of 143 Old 08-20-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Iíve seen them throughout the Caribbean. As much as Iím suspect and wary around any charter boat due to prior bad experiences when in their proximity I have seen them flown on charters as well.

I believe they are worthwhile to use not only for the vail of protection from tort but also if used by the knowledgeable members here there more common usage with encourage more the unaware to use them.

Iíve been struck while moored by a 60í charter cat. If that clown (a professional captain) went forward to put up a ball it would have been quite evident to him he had inadequate swing. Fortunately I was on on friends boat and so we jumped into our dinghies and pushed him off with no damage done.

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post #112 of 143 Old 08-20-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

When I bought my first boat, an ex-charter Sunsail boat in the BVI, it did have both a balll and an cone dayshape aboard. Unpacked. Still in the original packaging.

an anchor day-shape provides no protection at all from a collision, just from legal liability in case of a collision.


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post #113 of 143 Old 08-20-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

In Reality, None of the Rules protect you from collision from people who don't know them or choose to ignore them. None, Zero, Nada.

As sort-of evidenced by the topic of this thread.

I just never looked at them as a pick the ones you like and leave the rest set of guidelines. But that's just me. I'll see the boat, I'll look for the anchor rode. I'm not going to hit you ball or no ball.

I find the ball most informative when I'm sailing among the big boys who are anchored out waiting for a berth, In NY Harbor and surrounding waters. They do display proper days shapes. There may often be a Tug tucked in or alongside a barge, with it's stack blowing smoke, but a quick look on the bow will reveal that the barge is still anchored. I can usually spot the ball, before the anchor chain.

I'm not a tug or a barge, but I'll display a ball when anchored out.

Not worth getting in a quandary about though.
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post #114 of 143 Old 08-20-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern View Post
I've never seen the cone either. I have, on rare occasions, seen boats flying the anchor ball. I don't own one, but I think I'll put it down on the list for next spring.

Question: I pick up a mooring for the night. Do I fly an anchor ball?
It depends, are you sleeping in? No you don't need at night, but you do at day break.
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

This incident taught me a great deal about liability in a boating collision, as far as New York State is concerned (where I do most of my boating). Do everything I can to ensure I've got my butt covered, lest I be unlucky enough to be run over by a upstanding member of "Good Ol' Boys Club". They'll find any and every excuse in the book to let one of their own off the hook.

If that means flying a dayshape, I'll do it. Anchor lights? Done. I'd like to have all my T's crossed and my i's dotted.
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post #116 of 143 Old 08-20-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

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Originally Posted by mstern View Post
I've never seen the cone either. I have, on rare occasions, seen boats flying the anchor ball. I don't own one, but I think I'll put it down on the list for next spring.

Question: I pick up a mooring for the night. Do I fly an anchor ball?
If it's a " Special Anchorage" area Designated by the Secretary and you're less than 20 meters you need not display an anchor light. Likewise a Ball. These are Charted. I wouldn't display a ball there, but I might display my anchor light and a solar cockpit light, to help me find my way home at night. ;-)

There are also managed fields, that aren't charted. Rules determined by the municipality or the like.
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post #117 of 143 Old 08-21-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
....also if used by the knowledgeable members here there more common usage with encourage more the unaware to use them.
I think I follow what you meant. If one knows what it means and uses the anchor ball, others may follow. Fair enough. However, what value does that provide in actual collision avoidance, beyond compliance. Compliance could also be accomplished by removing the requirement from the ColRegs, at least for any recreational vessel.

No one is likely to find data on this. However, wouldn't we like to know if any collision at anchor could have been prevented by the ball. Seems so unlikely.

Quote:
Iíve been struck while moored by a 60í charter cat. If that clown (a professional captain) went forward to put up a ball it would have been quite evident to him he had inadequate swing.
I don't know, Out. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Do you sell anchor balls? Are you saying we can all better tell our swing radius from the bow than we can from the cockpit? I take it this vessel, as would be common for a cat that size, had a remote windlass and didn't already have to go to the bow to deploy or set a snubber. I think 90+% of boaters have to go to the bow anyway.

I've had boats swing into me, although, it's been in a mooring field that went dead calm. Everyone swinging randomly, so nothing anyone could really do but sit in the cockpit, with a beer, and fend off for a few hours. I was also hit at night, by a boat that broke free from it's mooring in a high current area. Did 7k worth of damage, but the offending vessel was unmanned. No ball or light could help.


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post #118 of 143 Old 08-21-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Minnie youíre right. All good points. Just strikes me (pun intended) anything that puts the brain dead publicís cortex in gear is to the good. Same as turn signals on a car. In Massachusetts theyíre viewed as something you accidentally hit reaching for the doobie that fell on the floor.
Agree I have unreasonable pet peeves.
On deck Hondas running at 5 am in crowded anchorages.
Rap music at 2 am when you are trying to catch Zs before a passage.
Unlit dinghies on plane zipping by 2í off your stern while you youíre watching for the green flash.
PWCs playing at full speed in an anchorage.
One designs racing each other through the anchorage. (Saw a remarkable crash. One hit a family in a dinghy just putting along. Next hit a cruiser while trying to avoid the first crash. Third hit the other two. Was a wonder anyone was able to stop laughing to pull them out of the water. I helped the family. )
People get on boats and their brains stop working. They become even more egocentric than they are when driving. Anything that makes them think about others and how their actions or inactions may effect others is all to the good.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #119 of 143 Old 08-21-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

A boat without sails could be motoring, a drift with no power, not under command, or anchored or moored. Moored boats are typically in a designated area (not always). Anchored boats are usually found in a designated anchorage (not always). Vessels adrift or not under command could be anywhere.

An "signal" which communicates to other vessels is useful because it informs them of the boat's status... signal flags do the same. I doubt many recreational boaters know the meanings of signal flags.

A vessel in a collision course with a sailboat with no sails, no signal flags, no anchor ball should be avoided. What sort of incompetent person would assume that they have right of way and are stand on vessel?

Do anchor lights "prevent" collisions? Perhaps because without one the vessel may go unseen.

Legal liability may be more complex. A vessel in a designated channel, not moving or anchored is clearly a hazard to navigation and should not be there. I don't know what would the legal situation with or without some sort of signal (flag, ball, horn, light, radio). That vessel seems to have a responsibility to "explain" why they are in the channel and not moving.

++++

Someone should make an anchor ball with an solar charged LED anchor light with a photo relay on off switch. Hoist it up when you anchor. When the light level drops the anchor light shows. It could even have a strobe function for emergencies.
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post #120 of 143 Old 08-21-2019
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Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

I canít really see how the anchor day shape could prevent a collision. Does anyone have a link to an actual report where failure to have a day shape up cause someone to be partially at fault for a collision? In this thread thereíve been a couple anecdotal reports of insurance not paying out, but was the day shape really the issue? I find that kind of hard to believe.


I can see how they could be useful for informational purposes. Is that boat drifting, slowly motoring, or are they anchored?

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