Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport - Page 4 - SailNet Community
 76Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago
Senior Member
 
mstern's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,449
Thanks: 60
Thanked 51 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Everyone, both sailors and powerboaters, have many stories of rude, rule-breaking and downright dangerous behavior on the water.

I assume that the next guy doesn't know or care about the COLREGS, and I act accordingly.
mstern is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,526
Thanks: 82
Thanked 550 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Pursuit of happiness is a empty, undefined and useless standard.

Please close this thread because it's going political.
Relax. It’s not going political. You apparently missed the big smiley. You started it anyway, Mr. Rights. <—-carefully note

Discussion over what to do about boater safety is warranted and not all have to agree with licensing, lest we close the thread over simple disagreement.

I’m returning to my thoughts on mandatory insurance. The propensity of accidents in the <21 ft range may only be indicative of the distribution of the fleet. They also make up the majority of registered vessels. Still, I can see folks being more likely to be uninsured on that investment than most with a 50 footer, for example. You can’t get insurance on a 50 footer, without some experience. You might not get it on a 21 footer, without demonstrating some safety training. You might get the benefit of the doubt on the 21 footer, as your first boat, but you’d be dropped for having an at fault accident and, if it were mandatory, you might take better care to keep that from happening.

There are many examples of the insurance company’s standards be more well defined than the governments. That makes sense, as the government can’t administer a complicated rule, the insurance companies can.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #33 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,526
Thanks: 82
Thanked 550 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern View Post
Everyone, both sailors and powerboaters, have many stories of rude, rule-breaking and downright dangerous behavior on the water.

I assume that the next guy doesn't know or care about the COLREGS, and I act accordingly.
Agreed, but some some situations are hard to act accordingly. Let me try to explain what we faced this past weekend, with the offender.

In front of me and to my starboard is a sailboat, under full sail, heading in roughly the same direction. I’m motor sailing, so he’s stand on, not to mention I’m overtaking, so I’m give way. Far to my starboard is a powerboat, for which I would also be give way. Although, this power boat is creeping along, likely do to the congested traffic. I determine there is no risk of collision, as I’ll easily pass in front by 100 yards or more. Still, I can’t turn to starboard, lest I create a collision risk. There is another powerboat passing my port side, on opposing courses. No risk of collision, but it prevents any course adjustment to port on my part.

Then there is the offending powerboat on my port, at full cruise speed, heading directly into the mess. We are on a collision course, there is no relative movement, and I’m not sure who he’ll hit. As stand on, I maintain course and speed. All he has to do is adjust course slightly to take our stern and he’d clear everything, as he should have. I really can’t change course, all I have at my disposal is to slow down. I wait and the bum makes absolutely no adjustment. I pull the throttle and he passes in front of me by 50 ft, literally taking a center path through it all, like he owned the place.

I truly think this one was road rage. No way he didn’t notice the potential conflict.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.

Last edited by Minnewaska; 5 Days Ago at 02:02 PM.
Minnewaska is offline  
 
post #34 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,721
Thanks: 389
Thanked 284 Times in 279 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

And you didn't blast him? (with the horn, not the 12 gauge)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now  
post #35 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,526
Thanks: 82
Thanked 550 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Horn blasting would have just confused the entire gaggle. No way to direct the blast to just the offender. Everyone else was doing fine. A 12g would have been more helpful in directing where it belonged. In the end, I took matters into my own hands to correct the situation, which is also part of the ColRegs.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #36 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,721
Thanks: 389
Thanked 284 Times in 279 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Similar situation; I was returning to my marina under power one afternoon. A sailboat to my port and closing on me was under power and raising his sail. There were at least two aboard the other boat, and they seemed focused on the sail. They got within 100 feet of me and I sounded 1 long blast (Attention!) at them. He then looked at me and gave a shrug as if to say "What?". I didn't care, as I was the stand on vessel and I wanted to be sure he saw me. Just because they were raising a sail that did not make them any more a sailboat than I was. Why they were motoring at 5 knots while raising sail I still can't figure out, but whatever...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by eherlihy; 5 Days Ago at 02:21 PM.
eherlihy is online now  
post #37 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,526
Thanks: 82
Thanked 550 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

E, thatís an interesting scenario. If they were still holding course, with their motor, they were clearly a powerboat. But when does a sailboat become a sailboat? Motor off? First sail to the top of the mast? What if drifting bare pole?

I do find that sailboat to sailboat conflict resolution can be very tight. Especially the racer community thinks nothing of coming within 100ft. To them, 10 feet is plenty. The ColRegs, as I recall, do require the give way vessel to make an obvious adjustment (canít recall the exact language) and clearing by 10 feet doesnít comply, IMO.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #38 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago
Senior Member
 
Minnesail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 2,732
Thanks: 160
Thanked 117 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

The exact language (emphasis added) is:
Quote:
RULE 8
Action to Avoid Collision
(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard to the observance of good seamanship.
(b) Any alteration of course or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession of small alterations of course or speed should be avoided.

When I took classes all that was shortened to "When you change course to avoid another vessel make it early and obvious."

Catalina 22
on a starboard tack
Minnesail is online now  
post #39 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,721
Thanks: 389
Thanked 284 Times in 279 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
E, thatís an interesting scenario. If they were still holding course, with their motor, they were clearly a powerboat. But when does a sailboat become a sailboat?
COLREGS make this clear under Rule 3; I have always summarized it thus; "when the engine is running AND the transmission is in gear."
Here is the official version with my highlights;
Quote:
Rule 3
General Definitions
For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires:

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of water craft, including nondisplacement craft, WIG craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.

(e) The term "seaplane" includes any aircraft designed to maneuver on the water.

(f) The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

(g) The term "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

The term "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" shall include but not be limited to:

(i) A vessel engaged in laying, servicing, or picking up a navigational mark, submarine cable or pipeline;
(ii) A vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
(iii) A vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
(iv) A vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
(v) A vessel engaged in mineclearance operations;
(vi) A vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
(h) The term "vessel constrained by her draft" means a power-driven vessel which because of her draft in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water is severely restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following.

(i) The word "underway" means a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.

(j) The words "length" and "breadth" of a vessel mean her length overall and greatest breadth.

(k) Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight of one another only when one can be observed visually from the other.

(l) The term "restricted visibility" means any condition in which visibility is restricted by fog, mist, falling snow, heavy rainstorms, sandstorms and any other similar causes.

(m) The term "Wing-In-Ground (WIG) craft" means a multimodal craft which, in its main operational mode, flies in close proximity to the surface by utilizing surface-effect action.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now  
post #40 of 105 Old 5 Days Ago
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,205
Thanks: 2
Thanked 88 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Sailboat and Powerboat collide outside Newport

Sensible is to raise and drop your sails away from traffic... and go very slowly when you do it.
JimMcGee likes this.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to SanderO For This Useful Post:
outbound (5 Days Ago)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 25 (5 members and 20 guests)
Minnesail , mrWinter , SanderO , Telesail , theluckyone17
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome