Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 41Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,582
Thanks: 4
Thanked 121 Times in 119 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

The loose headstay problem is even more severe on B&R rigged boats and multihulls (no backstay). In fact, one of the keys to working these boats to windward is the maintain a tight mainsheet, since that is where most of the forestay tension comes from.
RichH likes this.

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
pdqaltair is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
Senior Member
 
outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NE & Windwards
Posts: 6,161
Thanks: 133
Thanked 183 Times in 176 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Rich thank you for your efforts in reproducing your article. Will note the following that maybe specific to my boat.
Iím a solent with a tree trunk of a mast. Had a professional rigger go over my tensions. We intentionally allow a wee bit of sag in the genny at 15-20 kts. but keep the solent tight and flat. In short tension in the headstay is a little less than the forestay with the hydraulic backstay supplying no tension. There are no jack stays but with the hydraulic backstay applied BOTH headstay and forestay are tensioned. If to much tension is placed on the backstay sag increases in the solent but that also happens if too little tension is placed on it. Itís sometimes hard to see the leading edge. Find if the telltales at the luff are squirrelly but the ones at max chord are board straight back you have the wrong tension. Find the boat points 5-10 degrees higher in a fresh breeze under solent than partially rolled genny. Find the running backs are good for getting rid of pumping but nearly useless for sail shape. Will note sails are not Dacron and have virtually no stretch and are still new enough thereís no creep. Also itís important to keep nearly no tension in the leachlines of both your headsails. Any flutter tells you you have your tensions wrong or the cars need to be moved.
Think most solent rigged boats upwind in anything over 10 kts will point better and be faster under solent not genny. Think for masthead solents having the main up is key so loading on the mast and rigging remains appropriate.
Solent is a 90. Genny is a 135. Excellent set up for tradewind sailing. Genny downwind. Solent upwind. Genny reach in lighter air. Solent if over 15-20.
Minnesail likes this.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is online now  
post #23 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 4,050
Thanks: 14
Thanked 53 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 20
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

This video may be relevant as it discusses the issues of jib only sailing:

https://youtu.be/XpchXto6dF8

Certified...in several regards...
sailingfool is online now  
 
post #24 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
Senior Member
 
outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NE & Windwards
Posts: 6,161
Thanks: 133
Thanked 183 Times in 176 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Thanks for the vid. He points out the main danger of using jib alone in higher wind speeds. Lee helm. This was made obvious to me watching a charter boat getting nearly knocked down as we were going from Sopers to Bitter End. There was Xmas winds so 20sustained-25+gusts true. I had double reefed main and single reefed solent up. He had partially furled genny and no main. AWA about 45. He must of had significant lee helm as we were the same size boat on just about the same course but I caught up to him in the distance from Road Town to East End. So his rudder was acting as a brake in my estimation. The seas were ~4í in the Drake channel but rose to 6+ feet as we approached the Dogs leaving the lee of St.Thomas. Then there was a gust caused him to fall off broaching and a bigger sea than the usual caught him. Over he went. But fortunately didnít get the stick wet. He threw off the sheet and popped up.
That evening got to talk with him and his S.O. (?wife). She was upset and wanted to curtail their vacation. We, as a couple, talked them down. They usually sailed Long Island Sound and used the jib only technique for decades without mishap on their own boat. Explained this maybe alright in protected waters but not a good technique in open waters even when coastal.
Most folks will set things up to have a neutral helm or if safety is a concern a wee bit of weather helm. In a gust the boat will head up and the gust, regardless of sea state, will be a non event. Continue to think jib only is potentially dangerous unless the wind is behind the mast in higher true wind speeds.
oysterman23 likes this.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is online now  
post #25 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,449
Thanks: 12
Thanked 78 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Is the boat unkind in seaway with all the force forward?

Does it pull the bow down ?
A sailboat pivots on its center of lateral resistance (CLR), which is located approximately near the center of the keel. The mainsail is aft of the CLR and pressure on the mainsail pushes the stern to leeward. The jib is forward of the CLR and pressure on the jib pushes the bow to leeward. When sailing closehauled, the goal is to balance those two forces and produce a light weather helm.

Generally, a sloop sailing closehauled under only a non-overlapping jib has all its sail pressure forward of the CLR, and the jib will tend very strongly to pull the bow to leeward. But, when the jib is overlapping, the part of the jib that is aft of the CLR pushes the stern to leeward, and serves to provide a counterbalance against the part of the jib that is forward of the CLR. In other words, an overlapping jib provides some balance between the pressures both forward and aft of the CLR.
SanderO likes this.
Sailormon6 is online now  
post #26 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
Senior Member
 
outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NE & Windwards
Posts: 6,161
Thanks: 133
Thanked 183 Times in 176 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

S6 definitely true but the majority of the lateral plane of jib is still forward of the mast. So that small portion of the jib aft of the mast will help mitigate lee helm to a small degree for a masthead sloop but it will remain. Of course with some fractional rigged boats depending on position of the mast and size of the fore triangle the whole jib even if a 135 can be entirely in front of the designed total center of lateral resistance. (Vector sum of the clr of all sails). Furthermore your presentation only accounts for a beat with the sheets pulled in tight. Even at a near reach the whole jib or genny is commonly in front of the mast.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is online now  
post #27 of 49 Old 1 Week Ago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,793
Thanks: 1
Thanked 38 Times in 37 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

In a "fresh" Breeze, I'd rather have both sails, reefed if needed.

However, I often sail with the headsail alone when I have non-sailing guests on board. It makes for a more "relaxing" sail for everyone, including me. I'm in no hurry. My traveler is on the cabin top, as is the mainsheet. So, if people are sitting in the cockpit it's a pain to get to, even with the AP. on. If they decide to move around on deck, the boom is always a concern.

If I'm out solo for a few hours and the wind is good, I may only use the headsail.
chef2sail likes this.
tempest is online now  
post #28 of 49 Old 6 Days Ago
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,369
Thanks: 2
Thanked 91 Times in 91 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

I think it's from being lazy because of the roller furling head sail... no sail cover to deal with... and so forth. We're fractional... so if we're going to use the wind... we do it with both sails... main is always up when under way... sail or motoring.. except to anchor, mooring or fuel dock and so forth. Doing the main and closing up is not difficult but compared to winching in a furling head sail is like a world of difference. I bet those with in mast furling mains don't sail with jib alone.
chef2sail likes this.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it

Last edited by SanderO; 6 Days Ago at 11:38 PM.
SanderO is online now  
post #29 of 49 Old 6 Days Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,112
Thanks: 85
Thanked 190 Times in 182 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

That last statement get me
Why would someone with a furling main jib sail only and risk a knockdown.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


ďSailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.Ē- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is online now  
post #30 of 49 Old 6 Days Ago
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,319
Thanks: 66
Thanked 296 Times in 268 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

My biggest problem with going for a sail is the Main. The main boom cover zip to be precise.

To unzip I have to unzip the bimini from the dodger to get the main cover zip right aft. Re-zipping the bimini to the didger is a real pain in the neck and it can take 15 minutes pulling and pushing to get the zip to line up.

Then after the sail, re-zipping the boom cover and putting on the mast section can take 30 minutes or more. I specifically told the sailmaker to make the boom cover with an extra 18 inches(!) of space near the mast.... he then sub-contracted the job out and its tight, a pain... a real pain.

Really, I would never do a day sail happily with the thought of the covers.

But the furling jib takes 3 seconds, less. Pop, its out.



Mark
SanderO likes this.

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome