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Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

So many people post on this. Once in a great while I will also but usually only when single-handing. What do you think?

Does the rig pump more?
Is the boat unkind in seaway with all the force forward?
What do you do in a gust to prevent a knockdown?
Does it put a strain on the rigging?
Does it pull the bow down ?
Is it better to reef both main and jib than jib alone?


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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Except when nearly ddw use both. Believe a balanced rig is easier on the boat, leaves all points of sail open, uses less electricity when on the AP, allows the hydrovane to do a better job, and is faster.
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

rarely do... more likely to sail with main only... fractional rig.. hoisted in safety of harbor and reefed out if need be. Our genny is pretty small.

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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

When single handing, using roller furling head sail only is very convenient. If wind is really strong, roller furling staysail only is not a bad option. It makes going to weather a little harder on most boats.
Not sure if using correct amount of head sail only stresses the rig more than when combined with the main. Seems counterintuitive as adding more sail area adds more stress on the rig.
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

We often sail with the Yankee jib only in winds over 25 knots, especially when crossing the channels. Skipping Stone really gets going under that rig, often exceeding 10 knots to windward.
Sailing into an anchorage, we'll drop the main a bit outside, and again use the Yankee to get in. On a good day in flat water she'll point as high as 35 apparent, and sail very swiftly in any wind over 15. Actually a bit too swiftly, as we always joke, driving into a crowded anchorage at 7+ knots. So, every time we tack, we roll up a bit more jib until we are ghosting up to where I want to drop the anchor, under nothing more than a handkerchief of sail.
For Skipping Stone sailing under a head sail alone works very, very well. I think Mr. Shaw designed a handy lil Caribbean cruiser. Thanks, Bill.
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

For me, I like using a roller furling headsail when maneuvering in confined waters. You can change the size of the sail quickly and furl it completely to slow right down or stop. I guess I see it like the throttle control when the boats in low gear. On my gaff rig I use the peak halyard on my main to do the same thing.
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcb View Post
On my gaff rig I use the peak halyard on my main to do the same thing.
Oh, that's scandalous, just plain scandalous! lol
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

I don't worry about rig pumping or seaway states in my little lake boat, but I rarely sail on jib alone just because my boat sails like crap that way. Can barely sail upwind and sometimes even have a hard time tacking because the boat is so out of balance.

The exception is when I'm using my 170 drifter. With 70% of it behind the mast the boat actually balanced pretty good with it alone.
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Some 'technicals' on single sail sailing.

Sailing on a jib alone really depends on where the 'center of effort' lies in your combined sail plan.
Look at your designer's line-drawings for where the 'combined' center of effort -CE is located. The symbol used for the CE is a circle with big "+" inside it. There should be a CE for each sail .... and with faint or dashed lines drawn from *each* sail's CE to a 'central or *combined* CE. You're looking for the 'combined' CE.
The rule of thumb is: if the sail's geometry outline on the line-drawing 'touches' the designers combined CE, you can use the single sail ... to 'point' with some, but lesser, efficiency.

Mast Headed.
Generally, on mast-headed boats and with the mast (normally) located at about ~30% LOA back from the bow, the combined (all sails up) CE will be a foot or so aft of the mast. So, when sailing with a large LP (overlapping) jib all by itself the expected combined CE will still be located somewhat towards the aft section of the large LP jib. Surprisingly, you can still 'point' but at probably at 20-30° less than with the main also flying.
With a well balanced hull design you probably wont have much adverse helm develop. If adverse helm when pointing does develop and you have a HANK-ON jib that also has a cunningham cringle near the tack, or a TUFF-LUFF, you can overstrain the cunningham pressure and/or halyard tension to induce more 'rounded' luff entry shape, which will help shift the DYNAMIC CE a bit more forward in the jib.
With roller furling, the same luff entry 'rounding' can be aproximated by increased jib halyard strain ... but you're going risk to temporarily jam the furler (until you release the halyard strain) or possibly harm your relatively less expensive roller-furler. The high-end Harken's dont seem to mind an over-strained halyard; but, you have to 'ease' the halyard to be able to furl.

Fractional Rigged.
With the normally 'smaller' jib located 'well' in front of the mast at ~30% LOA ... The combined CE will be somewhat near the middle of the Mainsail, and will have quite poor windward ability with any jib up and alone. But, with a fractional rig, you have the added advantage of sailing with mainsail only .... and probably some dynamic CE balancing by by 'opening the leach' (curve from head to clew) by increasing halyard strain and perhaps allowing the boom aft end to rise a bit for the same effect. On most fractional rigs, the jibsail's projected geometry usually wont come close to the designer's combined CE ... so, with just a jib up youre not going anywhere but downwind.

Cutters.
TRUE cutter rigs (mast at ~50% LOD/LOA **) have 'it all' in flexibility, as the CE is usually found in the staysail (in front of the mast !!); plus by design, will sail almost as well at pointing with 'just' a yankee and staysail flying & no Mainsail ... just minor tacking angle loss.
** Many sloops (mast at ~30% of LOA) have staysails ... and therefore must be sailed as either a fractional rig or full masthead (above) when there is no mainsail flying. Bob Perry calls these boats 'SLUTTERS' - aka: cutter rigged sloops.


Rx: Sailing on a single headsail with higher efficiency when pointing relies not only the position of static CE; but also sometimes, a bit of sail SHAPING to help the dynamic CE to occur at a bit more forward (via - luff & leech 'shaping') - the same sail shaping as done with more advanced 'helm balancing' and optimizing a boat's 'performance'.

Other. Structurally, if the rigging can withstand the stresses and strains from all sails up, there should be no problems when a single sail is up.
Other2. 'Mast Pumping' is due to an induced harmonic vibration in sync with the natural frequencies and dynamic stress loadings on the mast and/or the rigging. On thin walled masts, the way to prevent 'pumping' is to tune the rigging 'to spec', and also be sure to 'induce some mast pre-bowing' (which will radically improve the mast's structural moment of inertia) that will drastically reduce the tendency of 'pumping'. How to: - https://www.seldenmast.com/files/141.../595-540-E.pdf

hope this helps.

Last edited by RichH; 1 Week Ago at 10:20 PM.
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Re: Dangers/ Advantges of sailing on only a jib with Fresh Wind

Indeed it does!
thanks ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Some 'technicals' on single sail sailing.

Sailing on a jib alone really depends on where the 'center of effort' lies in your combined sail plan.
Look at your designer's line-drawings for where the 'combined' center of effort -CE is located. The symbol used for the CE is a circle with big "+" inside it. There should be a CE for each sail .... and with faint or dashed lines drawn from *each* sail's CE to a 'central or *combined* CE. You're looking for the 'combined' CE.
The rule of thumb is: if the sail's geometry outline on the line-drawing 'touches' the designers combined CE, you can use the single sail ... to 'point' with some, but lesser, efficiency.

Mast Headed.
Generally, on mast-headed boats and with the mast (normally) located at about ~30% LOA back from the bow, the combined (all sails up) CE will be a foot or so aft of the mast. So, when sailing with a large LP (overlapping) jib all by itself the expected combined CE will still be located somewhat towards the aft section of the large LP jib. Surprisingly, you can still 'point' but at probably at 20-30° less than with the main also flying.
With a well balanced hull design you probably wont have much adverse helm develop. If adverse helm when pointing does develop and you have a HANK-ON jib that also has a cunningham cringle near the tack, or a TUFF-LUFF, you can overstrain the cunningham pressure and/or halyard tension to induce more 'rounded' luff entry shape, which will help shift the DYNAMIC CE a bit more forward in the jib.
With roller furling, the same luff entry 'rounding' can be aproximated by increased jib halyard strain ... but you're going risk to temporarily jam the furler (until you release the halyard strain) or possibly harm your relatively less expensive roller-furler. The high-end Harken's dont seem to mind an over-strained halyard; but, you have to 'ease' the halyard to be able to furl.

Fractional Rigged.
With the mast located 'well' in front of the mast at ~30% LOA ... The combined CE will be somewhat near the middle of the Mainsail, and will have quite poor windward ability with any jib up and alone. But, with a fractional rig, you have the added advantage of sailing with mainsail only .... and probably some dynamic CE balancing by by 'opening the leach' (curve from head to clew) by increasing halyard strain and perhaps allowing the boom aft end to rise a bit for the same effect. On most fractional rigs, the sails projected geometry usually wont come close to the designer's combined CE ... so, with just a jib up youre not going anywhere but downwind.

Cutters.
TRUE cutter rigs (mast at ~50% LOD/LOA **) have 'it all' in flexibility, as the CE is usually found in the staysail (in front of the mast !!); plus by design, will sail almost as well at pointing with 'just' a yankee and staysail flying & no Mainsail ... just minor tacking angle loss.
** Many sloops (mast at ~30% of LOA) have staysails ... and therefore must be sailed as either a fractional rig or full masthead (above) when there is no mainsail flying. Bob Perry calls these boats 'SLUTTERS' - aka: cutter rigged sloops.


Rx: Sailing on a single headsail with higher efficiency when pointing relies not only the position of static CE; but also sometimes, a bit of sail SHAPING to help the dynamic CE to occur at a bit more forward (via - luff & leech 'shaping') - the same sail shaping as done with more advanced 'helm balancing' and optimizing a boat's 'performance'.

Other. Structurally, if the rigging can withstand the stresses and strains from all sails up, there should be no problems when a single sail is up.
Other2. 'Mast Pumping' is due to an induced harmonic vibration in sync with the natural frequencies and dynamic stress loadings on the mast and/or the rigging. On thin walled masts, the way to prevent 'pumping' is to tune the rigging 'to spec', and also be sure to 'induce some mast pre-bowing' (which will radically improve the mast's structural moment of inertia) that will drastically reduce the tendency of 'pumping'. How to: - https://www.seldenmast.com/files/141.../595-540-E.pdf

hope this helps.

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