God I HATE Volvo... - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 41 Old 10-05-2019
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 2,873
Thanks: 4
Thanked 114 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

If that question is for me, then the answer is I compared with Yanmar because they are the big two, and Yanmar is the engine many compare with.

I've owned Kubota-based engines and agree that parts for them are less expensive - particularly if they are not specific marine parts and can be obtained at a tractor store. The marine-parts are still relatively expensive, however. For example, we recently owned a small Kubota-based engine on a marine generator. The price for the heat exchanger (non-Kubota part) was the same price as Volvo's price for our main Volvo engines.

Interestingly, many of the Volvo engines are actually repainted Perkins. On them, I could get all parts 20-30% cheaper through Perkins and, since they were also used in construction equipment, I could get non-marinized parts 50-70% cheaper through tractor or generator supply stores.

Lister-Petter are not typical or common small-boat engines. I wasn't aware that they made marine primary drive engines.

Maybe you could share some comparisons of common parts between comparable Volvo and other non-Yanmar engines?

Sticking with a 30hp engine for comparison, Westerbeke costs $875, Nanni parts are impossible to find in the US, but their EU price for a heat exchanger is $1,500 euros. While I can find the part numbers for the Beta 30 heat exchanger, I cannot find anyone on-line that sells them. Perhaps you could tell us what they cost?

From what I can determine, heat exchangers are expensive all-around, with Volvo not being the most expensive. The secret price of Beta may be the only example that is cheaper.

Mark

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 41 Old 10-05-2019
Member
 
GLausin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
Posts: 32
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockter View Post
Is Yanmar your only comparison?
Try comparing with Kubota (Beta Marine) or Lister-Petter or Perkins.
What do you think?
It is best not to defend the sky-high spare parts prices from Volvo by comparing them with another outfit that are similar.
My point was one of contrast, not similarity.
I can appreciate your comparison to these other alternative motors as replacements for either Volvo or Yanmar, but as I search for a live aboard (2010 and newer monohull) it seems the only two engines being installed, at least for this era, are the Volvo and Yanmar engines.

Also as been stated, I find it hard to blame an OEM manufacturer for NOT supporting a product that has been discontinued for 3 decades. It's the same with any machine, need to look for alternative solutions.
Minnewaska likes this.

Last edited by GLausin; 10-05-2019 at 01:06 PM.
GLausin is offline  
post #23 of 41 Old 10-05-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,199
Thanks: 82
Thanked 573 Times in 549 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLausin View Post
I can appreciate your comparison to these other alternative motors as replacements for either Volvo or Yanmar, but as I search for a live aboard (2010 and newer monohull) it seems the only two engines being installed, at least for this era, are the Volvo and Yanmar engines.

Also as been stated, I find it hard to blame an OEM manufacturer for NOT supporting a product that has been discontinued for 3 decades. It's the same with any machine, need to look for alternative solutions.
This sums up the situation.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
 
post #24 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,451
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 14
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

GL :
You would have a point if the price-gouging started after three decades.
For me, it started at less than one and a half decades.
Is that a long time for a diesel to last?
In 1998, and exhaust manifold for an MD17c Volvo was 1300... about 1/4 of the cost of a new engine elsewhere.
It was my fault that I split the one I had, but 1300, twenty years ago, for an engine series that stopped production 14 years earlier ???
And why should the marinised parts be more expensive than any other part of a Volvo marine diesel?

Anybody buying a boat with a Volvo in it must go in to the deal with their eyes open.
The motors are sound. The MD17c I have is running fine, but the relationship between an owner and Volvo is not the most wallet-friendly or even the most wallet-tolerant.
But careful what it will cost if something fails.
The next motor will not be a Volvo.
Rockter is offline  
post #25 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 2,873
Thanks: 4
Thanked 114 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockter View Post
And why should the marinised parts be more expensive than any other part of a Volvo marine diesel?
Because one doesn't have other options for those parts. Volvo doesn't make many of their small engines, nor the spare parts for them - they simply deal in other companies products. Most of their small engines are marinized industrial engines, so if one needs a non-marinized part, they can get them from many industrial sources for little money - starters, main seals, camshafts, etc. However, those sources don't have the marinized bits like heat exchangers and raw water pumps.

It is the same for Yanmar and Kubota based small marine diesels. For example, I once owned a Universal diesel, which is based on a common tractor Kubota engine. Universal wanted $87 for a thermostat. I got the exact same one from the local tractor store for $7. However, if I had needed a heat exchanger for it, I would have had to buy it from Universal, because that is a part only necessary for a marinized engine.

You seem intent on ignoring actual part cost data comparisons among various marine engine brands, and insisting that Volvo is egregiously worse than others. Good luck with your next wallet-friendly marine engine.

Mark

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
post #26 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,832
Thanks: 393
Thanked 296 Times in 291 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Because parts comparisons, and in particular heat exchangers have come up, I'll add this:

My boat's auxilliary engine is a Universal M25, which is a Kubota D850 block with;
  • a Universal exhaust manifold
  • 4 Universal motor mounts
  • a Motorola 51 Amp alternator and appropriate "V"belts
  • a heat exchanger (Originally a 2" diameter p/n 299049 then a 3" diameter p/n 299835). I believe that these are made by Seakamp Engineering.
  • Universal bronze paint. Once the engine is completed by Universal, Universal paints the entire engine.

I had to purchase a heat exchanger for my boat last week.
From: TOAD Marine Supply $880.60*
From: Discount Marine Source $860*
From TOAD Marine Supply $472
From: GoToMarine $389.04
From: Mr. Cool $335
263% price difference from different vendors!
* - I BELIEVE that these two options come painted the Universal Bronze. The others are only primed.

This part's price varies based on the spot value of the metals. For example, about 3 years ago I purchased the same heat exchanger from Mr. Cool for a client's boat and my cost was ~$500 at that time.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now  
post #27 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 2,873
Thanks: 4
Thanked 114 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Probably a raw water pump too. The alternator might be part of the original engine and not a Universal addition.

There are two different heat exchangers from the same supplier with vastly different prices? Must be an aftermarket part vs. OEM?

Mark

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
post #28 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,832
Thanks: 393
Thanked 296 Times in 291 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Probably a raw water pump too. The alternator might be part of the original engine and not a Universal addition.

There are two different heat exchangers from the same supplier with vastly different prices? Must be an aftermarket part vs. OEM?

Mark
You're correct regarding the waterpump. They would either use a Sherwood or Oberdorfer. I extemporaneously made the list above...

I assume that the price difference is because one is painted "Universal Bronze" and the other isn't. That paint is $40 a can!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now  
post #29 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bahamas
Posts: 3,731
Thanks: 3
Thanked 139 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: God I HATE Volvo...

Cu-Ni
RegisteredUser is online now  
post #30 of 41 Old 10-06-2019
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,832
Thanks: 393
Thanked 296 Times in 291 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
The $335 one that I just bought (should be delivered early this week) is Cu-Ni.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome