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post #121 of 138 Old 10-21-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
I am not trying to be rude.
Good to know, but wanting my keys didn't seem to have any other purpose.

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I am trying to make a few points. ......
Right and you keep repeating them. I think we understand what you're saying. I disagree with all those points I've noted above, just like most everyone else has. I've offered alternatives and even thoughts on how to accomplish what you're trying, even though I don't think it's likely to work.

What are we doing with this thread now? It's going in circles. This seems to be more of an amusing discussion than ultimately annoyed you, rather than an actual strategy for your exit.

I hope you find what you're looking for. The odds are not zero, just close.


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post #122 of 138 Old 10-21-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

This deal may only work for the person who doesn't have the need or the ability to do the boat every weekend from May to November. They may have family which doesn't want to sail every weekend... who have other interests they are pursuing... or the buyer has other interests like hiking or biking or golfing etc. I've been invited up to the mountains and I decline because it's sailing season!

So I believe I can cut my boat time in half... but care may suffer. I think a partner can solve these problems... each has more free time and both can rely on the other for companionship and help. Let's say the boat is in western LIS and we both want to sail in the Elizabeth Islands of MA or up to Maine. This is a journey that two can do safer and more relaxed than one though it can take some time. If you sail without stopping each night you can get there in 1/2 or 1/3 the time. Partner drives up to use the boat... other one takes the car back.. and so on. I can't do over nights because the wife will not let me sleep when underway. In the old days I sailed through the night with my buddy.

My concern is that the boat is in good hands... nothing to do with control. The partner will know he will get full possession in time... and that delivery date can be speeded up or slowed down. There are not many of these boats around. There are hundreds of mid 30s boats out there.. Benes, Catalinas, Pearsons, Hunters, C&Cs.. Js... Swans, Halberg Rassy, Sweden Yachts, Baltic, Pretorien, Dufor, Hanse and the list goes on. Some are common some are rare. All mid 30s are not created equal. This boat will sell to a person who wants what it is. Someone may want the keys and take off. A few may want to take a few years to immerse themselves. And the reverse for sellers. My use may slacken and then I sell it. I think this is not an uncommon route for an old sailor. I still have some sails in me so I am not about to stop on a dime.

We'll see what happens. I've had a few inquiries so apparently some are toying with the idea.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Good to know, but wanting my keys didn't seem to have any other purpose.



Right and you keep repeating them. I think we understand what you're saying. I disagree with all those points I've noted above, just like most everyone else has. I've offered alternatives and even thoughts on how to accomplish what you're trying, even though I don't think it's likely to work.

What are we doing with this thread now? It's going in circles. This seems to be more of an amusing discussion than ultimately annoyed you, rather than an actual strategy for your exit.

I hope you find what you're looking for. The odds are not zero, just close.
The statement about the keys was to make the point that you would probably want to spend considerable time with another sailor who you handed the keys to your boat.

I realize many people hire crew to deliver a boat. I've delivered a few boats as crew with the owner. And one sister ship of Shiva to an owner who hadn't sailed the boat. The delivery was 4,000 miles!

I think I would ship Shiva rather than hire a crew to do a long delivery. But more likely I would get crew to help and do it myself.

I am trying to be positive so the negativity is a bit of a bummer.

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post #124 of 138 Old 10-21-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Dave,

I have bno problem with your post. I think you are not understanding where I am coming from, going to and how I want to get there.


I don't want or need to teach someone how to sail. I am not looking for a noob. There is no complexity to sail control... sure it's a science and an art. I am not interested nor skilled at teaching someone how to sail... not do I want to.

What a noob needs to learn is the maintenance / care and intricacies of the on board systems... the ones I modified and installed. I know boo about diesel engines. I maintained mine for 35 years and it starts right up. I changed the engine mounts, starter, alternator and added a engine drive compressor and changed the belts, oil and coolant.

Do you have schematics and diagrams for your entire boat? I have 9 separate ones.

Shiva is my boat and it will be someone elses. And that's fine and that's what I want... someone who wants this particular boat.
Actually I do have schematics for all its systems

I have rewired the entire boat stem to stern to masthead. All documented as well as color coded and up to spec. Lamp wire was SOP for some of my mast electric I discovered when I did it.

I have installed all my electronics including the NMEA 2000 backbone, new pedestal Gaurd tubes , run all the wiring for the electronics as well.MFD, radar, speed, depth, wind, AIS, VHF.

I have installed all the batteries ( it’s why I have 6-6volt AGM, battery monitors, shunt etc, chargers inverter, got rid of the switch and installed the combiner, installed the echo charger for the start battery4

I have installed the dual Racor polishing system, do my own oil changes, new Bamar 100 amo 6 series as well as external AR5 ., replaced the fuel tank.

Installed a new holding tank

Installed all lifelines 3 times now.

Installed the Garhuer radar pole with engine hoist and installed the Garhauer davits with my wife.

Redid the AC/ DC panel to a Blue Seas and redid the teak woodwork to incorporate it.

Installed all new running rigging , shelves, new blocks, furling blocks, ez jack system.

Replaced all pumps and upgraded bilge and shower as well as installed a wash down pump .

All are documented and have diagrams in a binder . It’s not that I’m cheap....I just was curious and when something broke, and it does I would know how to fix it. So we are similar. Tinkering and fixing is part of my boat therapy. Whoever get Haleakula when we are done will be sure to get a well documented boat

I carry three soft briefcases, one for electrical, wire, bulbs, fans. One for plumbing , and one for for fasteners,

My wife makes ALL canvas

Lastly I have kept a log of e dry mike sailed by Haleakula in an electronic log . It will go with the 12 scrapbooks my wife has made. Since digital pictures have come in this now is easier.

When our boat sells, we can sit and still reminisce about the journeys while we sip coffee in Assisted Living����������


What I don’t do....bottom paint, standing rigging (rod for us), injectors , motor mounts , couplers. I don’t fit into the lazarette easily now


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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
This deal may only work for the person who doesn't have the need or the ability to do the boat every weekend from May to November. They may have family which doesn't want to sail every weekend... who have other interests they are pursuing... or the buyer has other interests like hiking or biking or golfing etc. I've been invited up to the mountains and I decline because it's sailing season!

So I believe I can cut my boat time in half... but care may suffer. I think a partner can solve these problems... each has more free time and both can rely on the other for companionship and help. Let's say the boat is in western LIS and we both want to sail in the Elizabeth Islands of MA or up to Maine. This is a journey that two can do safer and more relaxed than one though it can take some time. If you sail without stopping each night you can get there in 1/2 or 1/3 the time. Partner drives up to use the boat... other one takes the car back.. and so on. I can't do over nights because the wife will not let me sleep when underway. In the old days I sailed through the night with my buddy.

My concern is that the boat is in good hands... nothing to do with control. The partner will know he will get full possession in time... and that delivery date can be speeded up or slowed down. There are not many of these boats around. There are hundreds of mid 30s boats out there.. Benes, Catalinas, Pearsons, Hunters, C&Cs.. Js... Swans, Halberg Rassy, Sweden Yachts, Baltic, Pretorien, Dufor, Hanse and the list goes on. Some are common some are rare. All mid 30s are not created equal. This boat will sell to a person who wants what it is. Someone may want the keys and take off. A few may want to take a few years to immerse themselves. And the reverse for sellers. My use may slacken and then I sell it. I think this is not an uncommon route for an old sailor. I still have some sails in me so I am not about to stop on a dime.

We'll see what happens. I've had a few inquiries so apparently some are toying with the idea.
You are correct but all boats are highly regarded by their owners and sometimes overrated over others boats by their owners. You see that at selling time especially.

My boat has disqualifies to some. So does yours. The boat you own is only perfect in the eyes of the owner.

Your boat is well made. Fashioned for the North Sea. We all look for different things in boats. Your boat would definitely attract some followers. especially in the condition you have kept her. Of course the buyer will be comparing her to other mid 30s boats.

There are many factors which go into the boat people buy. Some People have disqualifiers. Some I have heard include sailing ability, pointing, cored hulls, BR rigsm fractional rigs, full keels, iron keels, fiberglassed chainplates, Volvo engines, lots of outside teak, lots of interior teak, different hull joints and the list goes on.

There are over 5000 Contests made since 1958 so itís not really Fair to imply a custom boat. Since only 600 sold in the US it just isnít a well known one. Had their been a market here they would have sold them.

Many of those companies you named... are every bit as quality and well made. A racer cruiser is built differently than a North Sea cruiser. Even in the Benes there are different levels. Difference between Volvo and a BMW.
There aimed at different markets. That does not make one superior to the other.

Some of the 35s boats made here like the Bristol, Hinkleys, Morris, are also well made cruisers.

The C&C , Catalina, Bene, Sabre , Tartan mid 30s boats sold well in areas of differing winds like the Chessie, not just cruising the North Sea or the trades. Added to that they were priced so much higher.

I am glad you have found a SN partner to sail with. Anytime extra on the water is a plus.


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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Seems to me that trying to have an influence over who will take possession of ones boat is akin to trying to influence who ones daughter goes out with or marries. This whole exit strategy stuff with the partnership and so on seems to be a facade to cover the real motivation.
You want Shiva to marry the right man. One who is aware of and appreciates all of the loving care that you have given her over the years.
I suggest that you let Shiva speak for herself. Your influence will always be with her and hopefully she will find the right man. He may not be as detail oriented as you or do things the way that you would but just as with daughters.... at some point you just have to let go.
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Purchasing a boat means a lot of research and knowledge. People in the market for a boat usually have narrowed their choices based on all sorts of factors. So I suspect some boat brands/models have more generic / universal appeal and others have a narrow niche appeal. And of course as boats are almost always altered... the modifications, upgrades, equipment and condition will make boats of the same model appear different... because they are. It's hard to make a universal claim that boat A is "better" then boat B by the same mfg and model. It's even more difficult to make the claim across brands for the same size. This is what makes this interesting!

++++

This thread is meant as a discussion for those who are wanting to get out of boating... because of the owners age and the deficits that come with old age. We slowly lose our strength, our range of motion, our balance, our sight and hearing...our energy... but often not our desire to sail as we did when we were younger versions of ourselves. You can sail as a senior... you just have to sail differently... and probably less frequently. People make adjustments as their life and lifestyle changes.

As a boat can be used in many ways... this too may change as one gets older. For sure maintenance and doing projects are just more difficult physically though mentally your abilities may be improved from experience.

As one uses their boat less... and the care becomes more taxing.... and their ownership costs continue unabated the possibility exists conceptually to find someone to pick up the slack so to speak. But that person should not have an immediate need for full immersion for whatever reasons. This is not common. When people commit they usually go whole hog full immersion. But I suppose there are those who don't own, who charter or crew and maybe rent a boat from time to time and that is adequate or a mach for their needs and budget and time availability. Partnerships are another approach... but they come with many hurdles. And they are clearly not for most boat owners.

An issue raised in this thread is can someone who was sole owner for decades change to a partner in the boat he owned? This appears to many to be impossible because of "emotional attachment". And that may be true. It certainly is a different situation from two or more partner buying a new boat together and sharing everything... decisions. work, time, costs.

The alternate to a slow exit is to slowly back away from everything one can and carry on with the expenses such as dockage/mooring/storage/insurance and do only required basic maintenance and let the boat sit unused until it goes on the market and is sold. This may be the more common exit.

I suppose some just cut the decision that it's time to more on haul the boat and put a for sale sign and list it with a broker and wait for a buyer. Kinda sad... because boats want to be used, sailed and "loved"... as opposed to sitting unused on land collecting dust and rust.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Boats don’t feel anything Love, wanting to be used...anything . Your are transferring human emotions to an inanimate object

It’s not sad when the owner moves on to open another chapter of their life. Boats don’t define people, people define themselves.

Whether Haleakula goes to a good owner or not, will be of no concern to me. I will not waste time worrying about that. The boat is a made up of fiberglass. The humans who occupy it are the emotions . I will have moved on emotionally. I have sold houses and cars and boats before with that in mind. Assigning emotions to what really is a business / financial decision would keep me rooted in the past. I prefer to look forward.

That’s why I think for me it will be a cut and dry exit if under my control. I don’t want to hang on and let that decision be made for me by circumstances like poor health or injury. When it’s time to sell I hope I recognize it

I have posted a lot in this thread as it hits close to home for me also. But I find myself repeating myself. Thank you for starting it and good luck. Whatever happens I hope you have happiness.��
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

I've been trying to entice young/younger people to get in to sailing for years now. With similar thought in mind, of being able to turn the boat over to someone else to sail eventually. It's a real challenge. There are summer weekends here, when I'm one of few sailboats on the water. During the week, I can almost be assured that I'll be the only sailboat on the Bay, in the height of summer! This in an area with over 20 million people within 50 miles of me.

Yet, Go to a Winery, a micro-brewery, a distillery,, a Food Truck festival, an outdoor Music Festival. a restaurant, around here and the crowds and the traffic are such that it's almost unbearable. The constant refrain when I take people sailing is " Wow, that's a lot of work" That, when I'm the only one doing the "work" , and often with guests aboard will only deploy the Genoa.

Might help if I create a food-boat, micro brewery... wait! I serve food and beer too?

Different Generation! Look around your boatyards in the fall and spring. How many people are there working on sailboats that don't have gray hair? ;-) ( if they have hair) ;-)
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Boats donít feel anything Love, wanting to be used...anything . Your are transferring human emotions to an inanimate object

Itís not sad when the owner moves on to open another chapter of their life. Boats donít define people, people define themselves.

Whether Haleakula goes to a good owner or not, will be of no concern to me. I will not waste time worrying about that. The boat is a made up of fiberglass. The humans who occupy it are the emotions . I will have moved on emotionally. I have sold houses and cars and boats before with that in mind. Assigning emotions to what really is a business / financial decision would keep me rooted in the past. I prefer to look forward.

Thatís why I think for me it will be a cut and dry exit if under my control. I donít want to hang on and let that decision be made for me by circumstances like poor health or injury. When itís time to sell I hope I recognize it

I have posted a lot in this thread as it hits close to home for me also. But I find myself repeating myself. Thank you for starting it and good luck. Whatever happens I hope you have happiness.��
Your comments are helpful. While I understand the notion that a boat is just a thing... to me it has been my home for 35 years... and it's not uncommon for people to get attached to their homes.... and other material "things". Of course my sailing skills have played a role... but the boat has gotten me through terrifying weather in the ocean and maybe saved my life and those aboard at the time. It took a pounding and stood up and we... the entire crew was sea sick as hell. We had one swept overboard and saved by the tether!

I am not looking forward to "the next adventure"... unless and until I can be more mobile things like travel will be more of a pain than a pleasure. I am still in recovery from a botched surgery which damaged my sciatic nerve. And nerves take a long time to recover... if ever. Sailing is actually something I can do out side as I am not needing to stand and walk! Lately I say the hardest part of sailing is walking from the boat to the dink or the launch!

A younger me needed to be sailing as much as I could... and tackled boat work tirelessly. That's no more. I now realize I benefit from help... and am not ashamed to say it and ask for it when I can. This means I pay for stuff I used to do.... stuff that needs to be done. But I do whatever I can and enjoy doing it.

But hell yes I see a lot of moored boats not moving from their moorings... and few younger people doing anything but racing smaller boats.

I won't repeat myself... but expressing my thoughts is helping me understand them.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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