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post #21 of 138 Old 09-25-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Sander: I just sold a boat this summer, one I had owned since 1999. In that time, I had worked on just about every square inch of the boat, making upgrades and changes. My circumstances are different than yours, as I was selling because I had bought a new (bigger) boat; so, no withdrawal pains for me.

Nevertheless, it was still difficult to let go. Based on the first few potential buyers who looked at the boat, I thought I would be helping the new owner set up and launch the boat, and to maybe even help them learn to sail. However, I wound up selling to a guy who was an "expert" in this particular model of my boat. According to him, he had owned several Odays in the past, including two previous boats of this model. So he had no need or desire for my input. I offered to show him my changes and modifications, and he politely declined. The boat was launched and docked two slips away from my new boat for a few weeks, and I noticed a few things that he had changed. It was decidedly strange. And a little sad. I think if it weren't for my new boat (which I am very excited about), I would have been in quite a funk. If I were serving as a mentor for a new owner, I am convinced I would be much happier.
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post #22 of 138 Old 09-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by mstern View Post
Sander: I just sold a boat this summer, one I had owned since 1999. In that time, I had worked on just about every square inch of the boat, making upgrades and changes. My circumstances are different than yours, as I was selling because I had bought a new (bigger) boat; so, no withdrawal pains for me.

Nevertheless, it was still difficult to let go. Based on the first few potential buyers who looked at the boat, I thought I would be helping the new owner set up and launch the boat, and to maybe even help them learn to sail. However, I wound up selling to a guy who was an "expert" in this particular model of my boat. According to him, he had owned several Odays in the past, including two previous boats of this model. So he had no need or desire for my input. I offered to show him my changes and modifications, and he politely declined. The boat was launched and docked two slips away from my new boat for a few weeks, and I noticed a few things that he had changed. It was decidedly strange. And a little sad. I think if it weren't for my new boat (which I am very excited about), I would have been in quite a funk. If I were serving as a mentor for a new owner, I am convinced I would be much happier.
Thanks for the story and the circumstances are very different... with the only common thing is you relate selling a boat you owned and loved for almost 20 years.

Contest36s is not a common boat and those who want them seem to be a different sort from owners of Hunters, Pearson, Catalinas and so on. For one is it is a European built boat. Sure there are now several euro makers selling in US... even building here. I think Bene is one. Halberg Rassey, Swan, Dufor, Wauquiez and several others are in a different niche. Contest is kinda in that niche. Build quality is usually very high. Contest is built to Lloyd's specs.

People who wander by the few times Shiva is tied on a dock usually have no idea what the boat is who made and so on. But almost always make very positive comments. Those who come below are universally impressed by the workmanship, layout and volume including headroom. But people who don't know the boat are not looking for one. So Contest36s is a niche market.

She was sold as a racer cruiser. I don't race and didn't set the boat up for racing. She was used for local and distance cruising and has been equipped for that. But she is a fast sailer and I make 150-175 miles a day offshore and have done LIS to Bermuda in 4 1/2 a number of times... always less than 5 days.

She's super comfortable below and in the cockpit... where 3 adults can lie fully down if they want to! The boat is dry... probably because of the high free board. I have seen no boat in this size range with a well designed or comfortable cockpit. Very very easy to single hand as well.

A new sailor can't or may not see all the pluses that Zaal did with this brilliant design. I am not sure what sort of sailor would want this boat... but clearly they would be one who understands what the design is about and what sort of sailing it targets successfully.

I'll see what shows up.

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post #23 of 138 Old 09-25-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

The Contest is a very different boat from the most popular boat of that size and vintage - the Catalina 36. It will take someone that wants a heavier cruiser over a lighter racer/cruiser. You may have to wait awhile for the right person to show up.
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post #24 of 138 Old 09-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by JimsCAL View Post
The Contest is a very different boat from the most popular boat of that size and vintage - the Catalina 36. It will take someone that wants a heavier cruiser over a lighter racer/cruiser. You may have to wait awhile for the right person to show up.
Jim, Indeed the two boats are very different. But it's not just some numbers.


Why do you say heavier? Are you concerned about 900#s????

CONTEST36s Deep fin

Ballast cast iron 6,475#
Displacement 15,985#
Displacement/Length RATIO 285
Screening FACTOR 183
Sail Area/Displacement RATIO 21.8


CATALINA 36

All fin keel models displace 15,000#
ballast 6,000#

pay attention... someone's life depends on it

Last edited by SanderO; 09-25-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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post #25 of 138 Old 09-25-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Iíve gone halvies on most of my boats. Did this while working as with a call schedule to do otherwise didnít make sense.
Usage was clearly outlined. I got alternating weeks as did the other owner. We also picked two weeks each uninterrupted so a yearly cruise was possible. Lastly we often invited each other to go sailing together but this was at our discretion. Expense were split in half. Maintenance as well. This worked great. With one partner we were equally skilled. With the other I was more skilled but he made up of it with doing more unskilled labor. In both cases we started as friends and left as friends. In both cases the partnership lasted through several boats.
A boat is a tool to allow an activity. At your stage of the game would think about a partnership. You get to sail. The other party benefits from your experience and skills. Either of you have the opportunity to leave. Give the remaining partner right of first refusal. If not exercised just sell it.
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post #26 of 138 Old 09-25-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Jeff,

I hope you can find someone who meets your requirements and allows you to continue to sail on Shiva. To you the love of her is obvious and she has been a major part of your life for a long time.

I can only think of myself facing this same proposition in the next 10 years or sooner if my knee operation does not improve things. I in fact have had these discussions this year with my wife who is as invested emotionally as much as I am. It will be exceeding difficult for us to sell her to someone else.

I think you have to look carefully at yourself ( referring to me, but maybe you too) . We have some similarities, confirmed by us meeting this summer. I for one could never do what you are planning. I would want to, but I donít think I could give up the control. When ever I have sold a house, I didnít stay.

Someone buying a 36 foot boat will probably be experiencing a move up. I know I wanted to make Haleakula mine many years ago when I bought her. I would not have wanted to discuss or seek even tacit approval from anyone else let alone its previous owner. Many more people will be looking to outright buy a boat. Partnerships I would bet or even limited ones are probably very rarely found.

I could only wonder what you would do after the deal is struck if/ when you found the new owner didnít leave things in the pristine condition like you do. I would wonder how you would feel personally to see in person Shiva become someone elseís. Emotionally I would have a hard time with this. It might even make it more difficult for me to deal with my own decline which caused me to consider selling my boat. It would make it more difficult for me to move on to something else with my time and life.

I think you are very special if you can get through these hurdles. I am trying to look at this as the owner like you. I am a long term owner like you. I am very attached emotionally to Haleakula. While she isnít a Swedish produced boat, I feel she is as well made. She has a combination of old world teak and mahogany, a comfortable sailing platform which performs well in the area in which I sail in., we have definitely made her ours over the last 20 years. All of her electronics and improvements were personally installed. I had the choice to when I bought Haleakula years ago, to buy a boat identical of your Shiva, and chose the boat I did, because of many factors.

As a person who has bought 3 and sold 2 keelboats, I am wondering what advantage would it be to take a deal buying a 30+ year old boat , where the boat clearly wasnít mine. How would you market that? And then there is the legalese part of it. Once money changes hands....who is the owner.

In concept and intellectually I understand what and why you want to do, but how do you actually do that.
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post #27 of 138 Old 09-25-2019
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Jim, Indeed the two boats are very different. But it's not just some numbers.


Why do you say heavier? Are you concerned about 900#s????

CONTEST36s Deep fin

Ballast cast iron 6,475#
Displacement 15,985#
Displacement/Length RATIO 285
Screening FACTOR 183
Sail Area/Displacement RATIO 21.8 ????????


CATALINA 36

All fin keel models displace 15,000#
ballast 6,000#
As to a lighter 36 foot racer/cruiser, I was thinking more of something like the C&C 110 like BarryL has; or one of the cruising J's, or a Bene First.

I mentioned the Cat 36 because it was produced by the thousands, and there are always dozens on the market. It and the Catalina 34 just about define a 1980s coastal cruiser in this size range. I suspect it's going to be a challenge to get a less knowledgeable shopper looking for a mid-30 foot coastal cruiser to look past them and take a look at your Contest.

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post #28 of 138 Old 09-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Originally Posted by JimsCAL View Post

I mentioned the Cat 36 because it was produced by the thousands, and there are always dozens on the market. It and the Catalina 34 just about define a 1980s coastal cruiser in this size range. I suspect it's going to be a challenge to get a less knowledgeable shopper looking for a mid-30 foot coastal cruiser to look past them and take a look at your Contest.
Thanks for the clarification Jim. Shiva is both a fast and comfortable boat and solid as well.

I am not looking to wow an uniformed prospective buyer. I am looking to turn the boat over to someone who appreciates the boat, its pedigree and design features as well as my work in making it easy to single or short hand sail. Uniformed boater may not know enough to look for what to me are the right features in a racer cruiser. Light to me is mostly what racers want. The 36s is also a great offshore boat... as well as a very comfortable coastal cruiser. Racers don't look at the 36s.

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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Thanks for the clarification Jim. Shiva is both a fast and comfortable boat and solid as well.

I am not looking to wow an uniformed prospective buyer. I am looking to turn the boat over to someone who appreciates the boat, its pedigree and design features as well as my work in making it easy to single or short hand sail. Uniformed boater may not know enough to look for what to me are the right features in a racer cruiser. Light to me is mostly what racers want. The 36s is also a great offshore boat... as well as a very comfortable coastal cruiser. Racers don't look at the 36s.
Our old girl , C&C 35 MKIII of the same vintage ( 1983 ) as Shiva is a true racer / cruiser. PHRF rated at 127 vs the Contest 36S at 153.

I would definitely rather be offshore and cruise on the Contest. I would rather race and have the C&C in the light winds of the Chesapeake and LI SoundThatís what I think her niche is. A fairly good sailor.


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post #30 of 138 Old 09-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Exiting Strategies for Boat Ownership

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Our old girl , C&C 35 MKIII of the same vintage ( 1983 ) as Shiva is a true racer / cruiser. PHRF rated at 127 vs the Contest 36S at 153.

I would definitely rather be offshore and cruise on the Contest. I would rather race and have the C&C in the light winds of the Chesapeake and LI SoundThatís what I think her niche is. A fairly good sailor.
Makes perfect sense... I am not into any sort of formal round the buoys etc. racing. Or even ocean racing. I do think some distance races can be fun just to have a crew, the camaraderie and the focus on getting the boat to perform as best she can.

On the distances I typically sail in a day... I haven't found the 36s to be slow by any means. But she is not a light air boat. For me comfort and ease of use are more important that raw speed and light wind sailing. Sailing on the Sound she seems to do well enough compared to boats of similar size. We're talking more differences of minutes in distances sailed over a day not hours.

When I bought the boat I hadn't a clue about any of this. I came to understand it as I sailed the boat. And the more I did the more I appreciated what Zaal accomplished with this design.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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