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post #11 of 27 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Low balling

Although it can work, I personally don't low ball. If the ask is crazy given the condition, I walk away. Maybe I'm different, but this is sailing, and I like friendly deals with nice people. I've had to do enough tough dealing in business, I don't want to take that into my leisure activity. Crazy, but I don't buy a boat from someone I don't like, not even for free. There will be something wrong with it. Ownership costs will = purchase price in 5 to 10 years if you buy a good one. Buy a bad one, it can happen the first year.

If we discover something in survey that is a surprise to both the good/friendly owner and myself, we work it out like adults. But that's a relatively small amount, less than 10% of ask, because the good owner, with scruples and diligence, usually doesn't get a lot of surprises at survey.

I may not be getting the best "deal", but I think I'm having the most fun.

YMMV.
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post #12 of 27 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Low balling

Market is supply and demand, marketing 101.

supply can be limited locally for sure, but if there is a glut, and the boats aren't trailerable (easily), then a surplus of supply will drive down cost.

To put this another way, actual value = only a price you can possible get someone to pay.

I see LOTS of (sail)boats for sale locally, and a very small market of buyers (nearly none). Even less willing to buy 35+ year old boats, and spend nearly $3000 to haul them out and derig them for transport for an additional amount $1000+ to move it to your sailing venue of sorts. When you see many of these 30+ foot boats in the under $20,000 range, that cost to haul leaves you with a local market, which is nearly non-existent.

Those of you in bigger water, the possibility of larger market exists slightly better for 30+ footers as they could technically be delivered to other locations without that severe haulout cost (and hassle) but even that has cost.

Recall Time = Money so sometimes its the time it takes that is the huge cost, some its only the $$ amount that matters. Reality both matter.

So LOWBALL all you want, but be prepared to analyze the market for the seller, and paraphrase it to them in the way that brings them to the reality of the size of the market they SHOULD be pricing for.

As a seller I will hate you for this. As a buyer, I will bludgeon you with it... Reality is though that facts matter, and you must know the market and supply to come up with a price that makes sense (both as a buyer and seller).

I lost money on my trailerable boat despite a larger market. I will likely be a scab on the purchase of my next boat, as there is a glut of 30+ footers for sale, and they aren't moving.
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post #13 of 27 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Low balling

My three boat purchases

Boat #1 asking $72k got it for $42k. Beat the baliff by 10 minutes
Boat #2 asking $135k got it for $105k
Boat #3 asking $80k got it for 25k. Seller had a bad month

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #14 of 27 Old 10-01-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Low balling

Thanks for the sincere discussion, I understand it's a difficult question to address and I wasn't expecting to crack this. My one contradictory thought is the constant perception that is thrown out there of an eager seller, many boats available and a dwindling interest in sailing, these things do not line up to produce a strong marketplace.

(I also paid the asking on my boat, total newb)
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post #15 of 27 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Low balling

I think it really depends on how much you do your research and in what condition you want to buy a boat. Someone going through a divorce after their business fails has got to get out from under a toy like a boat a lot faster than his home or car.
On the other hand someone who has owned a boat since it was manufactured and is thinking of selling because of age, is going to have a lot of emotional attachment to that boat and probably overvalue it considerably.
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post #16 of 27 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Low balling

In my experience, there are two approaches:
* Get a bargain by low balling or hunting, and then fix it up. If the boat was in very good shape and a model that is in demand, you won't find a bargain by either strategy.
* Pay fair price for a model that is in demand and in very good shape and keep it that way. Up graded it a little. You will get your money back, less the time value, and you will get to sail a fun boat.

I've always gotten my money back (4 times) and I would not have paid attention to any offer under 90% of list. I think they were priced fairly, and they all sold at >90% of list and 100% of purchase, and all were in very good shape when purchased.

I'm a very competent DIY, but I don't feel like you ever get your money and time back on a project. The boat will not likely be high price or high demand when you sell it.
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Low balling

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Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
priced fairly,.
I don't thin "fair" priced has anything to do with it. This is a business deal, not a gentlemen's game. There are plenty of deals on boats in at least good or better condition where the owner just needs to get out from under the expense of owning a toy. A boat is not a necessity and is always the first thing to go when someone needs to cut back.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #18 of 27 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Low balling

I completed my 5,000th survey yesterday, so that is 5,000 valuations.

I have a few thoughts on the matter here ...

Boat Values - A Crap Shoot
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The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #19 of 27 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Low balling

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I don't thin "fair" priced has anything to do with it. This is a business deal, not a gentlemen's game.
The meaning of "fair price" is not meant in the social justice sense here.

But as in "market value", in other words, realistic.

Most sellers are not in a hurry, and many are both stubborn and grossly overestimate the value of their baby, to the point just not worth dealing with them, until enough time has passed maybe they start to get realistic.
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post #20 of 27 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Low balling

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
In my experience, there are two approaches:
* Get a bargain by low balling or hunting, and then fix it up. If the boat was in very good shape and a model that is in demand, you won't find a bargain by either strategy.
* Pay fair price for a model that is in demand and in very good shape and keep it that way. Up graded it a little. You will get your money back, less the time value, and you will get to sail a fun boat.

I've always gotten my money back (4 times) and I would not have paid attention to any offer under 90% of list. I think they were priced fairly, and they all sold at >90% of list and 100% of purchase, and all were in very good shape when purchased.

I'm a very competent DIY, but I don't feel like you ever get your money and time back on a project. The boat will not likely be high price or high demand when you sell it.
Respectfully, could not disagree more. I bought my Wavelength 24 for X,which was well cared for, had a full set of sails that were truly never used (still in the packing boxes). The boat was not raced, and was in great shape (boat, motor, trailer). I improved it, removed teak, upgraded hardware, fixed running rigging, added electronics (VHF, tiller pilot, radio, electrical panel), added a brand new 4 stroke outboard, and sold it 2 years later for X-2000 because demand is down. Its a trailerable so market is regional, but not local limited.

You folks are burying your heads if you think sailboat buyers are just as plentiful as ever.
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