Annapolis Boat Show - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-15-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Interesting comment about cockpit size and this needs to discussed... perhaps.

I would argue that boats that are prepared for offshore are really intended to local cruising in relatively protected waters and living aboard. And so I see that there needs to be a comfortable, dry safe cockpit that works for the owner(s) when not working the oceans!

Cockpit size is... too small and not comfortable is something I find a deficit in way too many boats. I think you need room to stretch out and even lie down... and for several people at once! I found that when on board... and either at anchor or simply going somewhere we (I) are in the cockpit, crew is, guests are and often the dog(s) are. Our cockpit which I consider well designed for this purpose is essentially a large rectangular donut which allows one to lie down athwartship behind the helm, at the bridge deck or foew and aft along side the helm. No camel back seat for a helmsmen (awful!). Boat is on auto piliot 99% of the time and when there is a someone steering they can stand, sit or even sit on the coaming and reach the helm. Offshore I keep the raft behind the helm and some can sit on that if they want to steer.

Short "benches" are almost useless and remind me of a seat on a subway or bus. YUCK!

I don't see anything unseaworthy or unsuited or offshore about the Contest 36s cockit, I've always felt safe and protected there as well as comfortable. And the cushions really make it very comfortable as well. You can sleep there as well! Sunbrella cushions have a dark blue and light taupe side... dark for cool weather and light for warm weather.
I agree about bench length. You wood is beautiful and the cockpit looks comfortable and is nice and compact also. Places for feet when heeling. Always a place for your hand for the boat.

Personally not a fan not being able to walk forward around the wheel

Not a fan of having the traveler in the cockpit unless itís a racing boat. Having lines under load to trip over or under foot is not my preference.

I understand the single-handing aspects of their ease the, just not what I prefer

All boats are trade offs....no one is perfect. We all have an affinity towRd the boat we own.

I am not criticizing anyoneís choice here, just discussing a point of view for new or sailors who have certain criteria when looking for a new boat or looking to upgrade .

When I look at a boat I look for subtle things that mean something in larger winds or rough seas. Hand holds, footing, water ingress into the cabin .

For example the Catalina I saw had the sill leading to the companionway at 6 inches. You could get into the cabin easily. So could a pooping wave . The Passport, Swan, Outbound there was a two foot step up before entering the companionway.
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-15-2019
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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I wasnít talking about catamarans so letís not drift into that. Many of the production boats had huge cockpits with tables set between the benches.
Tables to be impaled upon in pitching seas. Tables to reduce the walking space in the cockpit. Tables to get in the way of handing sheets and winches on alternating sides.

The cockpits were not equipped IMHO to be safe in larger seas.

I am comparing letís say the design of the Outbound 46, the Swans, the Hylas and other similar sized boats. Itís not about price here but about design. The production boats design emphasis was on cockpit appears to be comfort at anchor. The others in terms of seaway design.

Looks like if leading jack lines on the production boats would require two different lines through the cockpit area.
I didn't really bring catamarans into it - I was just pointing out how beam helps with larger cockpits, and used catamarans and newer monohull designs as examples. If you took a catamaran cockpit and squeezed the beam to a monohull width, most would have comparable cockpit sizes to monohulls. This is what beam gets one back there - larger cockpit without cutting further into interior space.

I also pointed out several features of a cockpit that made them safe. After that, size is inconsequential, and larger is better (again, take it to an extreme like a catamaran for comparison). If you saw cockpits that were large and not safe as I described, then those are not ones that I was advocating.

It is possible to have a seaworthy design AND comfort at anchor. I don't pay much attention to new boats, but in the past, cockpit tables could be made to go away completely and easily. Alternately, electric winches, lines leading to only a couple of places with clutches and organizers, fractional rigs with self-tacking headsails, and other conveniences allow cockpit designs to change. Larger cockpits also allow more freedom of movement around fixed furnishings.

Is a single jackline the norm in monohulls? On my past monohulls, I always rigged separate jacklines for each side. Also, I never led them through the cockpit, just to the stern close to the coamings for clipping into. The cockpit had its own hard attachment points.

Mark

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post #13 of 17 Old 10-15-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Ok I guess you had to be there.......

I wasnít talking about catamarans....not sure why that is even relevant. Thatís your frame of reference because you own one. I was specifically talking about a number of designs I saw in person.....the new ones....not some old ones. Iím specifically talking about what I saw at the Annapolis Boat Show yesterday. This discussion has nothing to do with catamarans....apples and oranges.

I did go on some cats BTW. I really like the Privilege.

All of the boats i posted about I saw in person were examples of what was for sale now, or had just been sold....the newest versions. My remarks about what I thought about the long fixed cockpit tables are what I saw.
Yes you can remove them, however that leaves a huge space with nothing to hold on to. Many of my friends with these boats donít remove them in actuality. I felt that the tables were an impediment toward moving around the cockpit.

The Outbounds and Swans and others had better and safer designs of their cockpits for offshore traveling IMHO.
That was my point. They have found ways to have excellent room in their stern quarters without sacrificing safety . Just my own opinion from what I saw.

Many of my friends have both styles of cockpits. It is interesting to see how designs have evolved into modern day hull form on monhulls.....which is what I am talking about.

I am not a marine architect like JeffH just a humble sailor who is just reporting on what I am seeing FIRSTHAND yesterday. I wonder if JeffH goes to the show...and what he thinks.
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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

OK, you are fixated on the catamaran thing, and will not understand why I mentioned them - even though I explained it very well. It didn't have anything to do with catamarans at all, but with beam and cockpit size. The catamaran angle was mentioned as an example of extreme beam, and I made that point very clear and explicit. Many modern monohull cockpit designs are approaching cockpit sizes of catamarans - and some are safe offshore designs.

Yes, you saw some boats. Nobody argued that. However, you brought up the topic of cockpits in general, and the second post in the thread expanded on that topic. I was just expanding on it too. It is an interesting topic, and one that is under significant evolution right now.

Then you asked me about why I had a certain opinion. I expanded on that. My frame of reference is 20yrs of owning cruising monohulls and 16yrs of owning cruising catamarans.

Mark

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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

So you and I both have 36 years of owning monohulls...big deal. We are amateurs in architecture. My comments are directed at monohulls....no one mentioned catamarans but you.

My observations were first hand of the two different styles of cockpits the monohull companies were showing at the Annapolis show. Itís all in the threads.

The catamaran references are not really relevant....but any references to the different types of monohull designs are. I think Sander proposed that and I agree. I hope JeffH might chime in here too

This was simply a report on what I saw at the boat show.....not to turn into this bull.....but Iím sure youíll need to have the last word here if you stay true to form.
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-17-2019
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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Last Boat I saw was the Amel 50. I'm in love! Quite a standout. I gave a deposit. Oh wait, that last part was a dream.
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post #17 of 17 Old 10-21-2019
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Re: Annapolis Boat Show

Finally AMEL is producing a sexier, eye appealing yacht... Just my opinion though

Shawn


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