Considering Catalina 38 - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 27 Old 10-28-2019
Senior Member
 
roverhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kona, Hawaii
Posts: 999
Thanks: 5
Thanked 86 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Considering Catalina 38

Catalina modified the S&S design changing to a balanced spade rudder that supposedly tamed the IOR designs handling problems under spinnaker and made for a faster boat though that may have more to do with a taller mast. The touchy handling of IOR boats downwind was mostly from carrying big spinnakers into strong winds. Conditions that a cruiser isn't likely dumb enough to get themselves into.

Halyards led aft for headsails is not a good idea unless you'll always sail with crew who will stay in the cockpit and man the halyard winch. Raising a headsail usually involves trips to the bow to clear feeds into the furling extrusion or even with a hank on sail. Solo or shorthanded you don't want to run all the way back to the cockpit to hoist a sail each time there is a hiccup. For many boats with roller furling/reefing, the sail will go up in the spring and down in the fall so their is little justification for the expense of running a headsail halyard back to the cockpit.

Main sail halyard and reefing lines lead back to the cockpit are another story. Way way more convenient and SAFE to reef from the cockpit rather than at the mast. Messing about at the mast when conditions require reefing makes me wish I had a third arm to hang on with while the other two are handling the reef. On my old boat and the new to me boat all the strings for controlling the main are led aft, halyard, clew and tack reef lines, outhaul, topping lift and vang are easily handled braced in the cockpit. No longer have that tendency to hold off tieing or shaking out a reef until things get really interesting when it's done aft. Sometimes reef just for practice and fun of it.
JimMcGee, Minnesail and Jenksie like this.

Last edited by roverhi; 10-28-2019 at 11:18 PM.
roverhi is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 27 Old 10-28-2019
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 14
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Considering Catalina 38

Great post. Agree almost entirely. IOR boats were designed to a rating which benefited unstable boats whether with spinnaker or not. The pinched end of the 38 made them less stable off the wind. Rudder redesign was a great comment as Frank Butler at Catalina was always thinking ahead.
zzmeyer is offline  
post #23 of 27 Old 10-29-2019
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 11,610
Thanks: 130
Thanked 245 Times in 237 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Considering Catalina 38

Many of the IOR boats were designed similarly. Our C&C 35 MKIII was.

In the beginning when I raced her and had the luxury of a crew and had a plethora of hank on headsails it made sense to have the winch at the mast for the jib/ halyard as well as the spinnaker halyard.

When we added a roller furler to the head stay it actually became a PIA. Adding the two halyards to the already in place deck organizers and line clutches was an easy fix. It allowed Haleakula to be sailed by less people.

The furler ( first a hood with on slot and now the Harken 1V with two slots) has made our sail handling easier. We had our sails modified to use the furler guides and slots and no long have a hank on. Even our storm sail which rarely gets used fits this.

Since many use furlers and rarely undergo complete sail changes, modifying to be able to raise the jib from the cockpit makes sense. It isn’t so much raising the sail, as usually it happens only once a season ( unless there is an issue. Once raised therefore it can get locked in the clutch / cleated on a horn and cleared out of the way Of the other lines used more often. It makes it a cleaner look too. The advantage is when there is an issue with the jib. It can be dropped easily without leaving the cockpit to work at the mast. Then you have a helmsman, person at the mast , and one on the foredeck flaking/ tidying the sail as it’s dropped. If led to the cockpit the helmsman can lower and the foredeck person can tidy, one less person needed.
chef2sail is online now  
 
post #24 of 27 Old 10-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Jackson WY
Posts: 2,272
Thanks: 45
Thanked 93 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 19
 
Re: Considering Catalina 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenksie View Post
This will reveal my inexperience in boat buying, but here goes. I realized the Catalina 38 in question has a shoal draft (plus the aforementioned cruising rigging). Does anyone have experience racing this model?

The guys I will race against are sailing boats like a Beneteau 35, S2 9.1 and a Catalina 30TM

We race on Lake Michigan with PHRF handicap in Jib & Main section (until I get a spinnaker situated). And you can assume my team has better sailors. lol.

The Catalina I'm looking at is so well maintained and updated, it's hard for me to pass by.
It sounds like this boat may be a good deal and something to get you out sailing. If your plans are to race it, it may not be the right boat.

Even casual racing can be expensive. You need a decent suit of sails and a boat equipped for it. If your boat is sparsely rigged now, you can expect to spend a few thousand dollars in rigging before even buying a spinnaker.

Not saying this is not right boat for you but consider how you want the boat to be equipped eventually and factor in the costs to upgrade. You could easily spend $20k outfitting a $10k boat to race and end up with a boat worth $15k. You might be better off buying the $15k boat to start off.

I would never consider a shoal draft boat unless my sailing location demanded it, especially if I was considering racing the boat.

Jordan
West Wight Potter 14 "Lemon Drop"
Oceanside CA
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
jephotog is offline  
post #25 of 27 Old 10-29-2019
Senior Member
 
SchockT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,252
Thanks: 4
Thanked 54 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Considering Catalina 38

The old IOR hull designs were never very fun off the wind regardless if you were flying a spinnaker or not. Putting a more powerful rudder on them helped the helmsman to control the "death roll" but it did not cure the tendency to do so.

On the bright side IOR boats were often upwind pointing machines, and even today they often have an advantage over more modern designs. Unfortunately a shoal draft keel will likely negate that advantage.

Setting up any cruising boat to be a competitive racer, even in beer can racing, is going to be a costly venture. How costly really depends on how serious you are about winning, and how often you plan on racing. If your intention is to mainly go cruising, and occasionally enter races against other cruising boats, then the Catalina 38 will be fine, though the SD keel may get frustrating because you will likely get creamed upwind.

On the other hand, if you plan on racing regularly and compete in a more active racing fleet, you may want to consider something a little bit faster.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

2011 Jeanneau 39i Azura
SchockT is online now  
post #26 of 27 Old 10-30-2019
Member
 
JimMcGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marathon, Florida
Posts: 2,433
Thanks: 104
Thanked 85 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Considering Catalina 38

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Halyards led aft for headsails is not a good idea unless you'll always sail with crew who will stay in the cockpit and man the halyard winch. Raising a headsail usually involves trips to the bow to clear feeds into the furling extrusion or even with a hank on sail. Solo or shorthanded you don't want to run all the way back to the cockpit to hoist a sail each time there is a hiccup. For many boats with roller furling/reefing, the sail will go up in the spring and down in the fall so their is little justification for the expense of running a headsail halyard back to the cockpit.
You make a good point.

On our boat it was exactly that -- up in the spring down in the fall. The jib halyard was led to the cockpit (standard on later Catalina's) and made it a two man job; one to crank the winch and one to feed the sail into the track on the Hood furler while spraying Sailkote to keep it moving smoothly in the track. If we'd have had a winch on the mast it would have made this a one man job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The advantage is when there is an issue with the jib. It can be dropped easily without leaving the cockpit to work at the mast. Then you have a helmsman, person at the mast , and one on the foredeck flaking/ tidying the sail as it’s dropped. If led to the cockpit the helmsman can lower and the foredeck person can tidy, one less person needed.
But I think Chef's concern is the overriding one -- I can always find someone to share a couple of beers in the spring and help me raise the sail. But if the crap hits the fan the ability to get a flogging sail down fast from the cockpit is an option you want to have.

Currently Boatless

The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by JimMcGee; 10-31-2019 at 03:06 PM.
JimMcGee is offline  
post #27 of 27 Old 10-30-2019
Senior Member
 
GeorgeB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 2,088
Thanks: 3
Thanked 69 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Considering Catalina 38

I have actually raced on (and also against) the C38. I like the 38 with it’s “retro” (at least by modern standards) cabin design. A couple of notes: The “squirrely” downwind characteristics is really a function of the short “E” and long “J” combination. This results in a gigantic spinnaker and relatively small main the counter balance. Problem with “death rolls”? sail on your downwind polars. This IOR boat really excels sailing to windward. The 130 genoa was a big sail and produced a ton of power and the boat would go to windward like a freight train. The tumblehome hull did an effective job of increasing water line and the resulting hull speed. The placement of the cockpit drains was a pretty effective “fun-o-meter” as when the boat was really dug in, water would pump into the cockpit. One of the few boats I’d wear my tall sea boots while driving.
Minnesail likes this.

George B
2000 Catalina 34 MkII
Alameda, Ca.
GeorgeB is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome